PLEASE HELP - Need advice about possible unfair dismissal.........

HellyBelly · 2005-12-31T18:29:46+00:00

Some may have read other posts in other sections but I forgot all about this section Basically, my dh got a letter on Christmas Eve saying he had been dismissed. The reason was given (although we know this is not the reason why - long story!) in the letter however no verbal or written warning was given first, just the letter!! After getting advice from mumsnet last week, we phoned ACAS but unfortunately they have been useless. Can anyone here recommend someone we can talk to to get free advice? Thanks to what's happened we are in a big financial mess (as my income was more than halved recently) and we need URGENT advice. Any info would be great!! BTW, Happy New Year!!

thecattleareALOHing · 31/12/2005 18:53

Is he a union member? What job did he have and how long had he been employed? Why was he dismissed? And was he sacked rather than made redundant?

Original poster

HellyBelly · 31/12/2005 19:05

Not a union member.

Worked for a small company as a sales executive.

His contract states 3 steps before dismissal, verbal warning, written warning etc.

They are very hot on sales i.e. never wanting anyone to have a day off but of course they have to let you. Anyway, dh was signed off for major back problems for 2 weeks (dr came out) and work were not happy that he wouldn't be on the phone trying to get appointments. He had the week before xmas booked off and we think they are p'd off with him for not cancelling it!

His letter says he's been dismissed due to sales performance. He started the job in August and at no point has this performance concern been mentioned formally.

Must go as ds screaming - will be back.

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foxinsocks · 31/12/2005 19:07

I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure they have to follow dismissal procedure to the letter otherwise it's unfair dismissal.

foxinsocks · 31/12/2005 19:10

if he's worked there less than a year, I think there are other rules - probably better to contact CAB and get in touch with someone who knows what they are talking about!

WigWamBam · 31/12/2005 19:11

Citizen's Advice Bureau might be able to help, they're pretty good on employment law.

Janh · 31/12/2005 19:12

Does the contract say anything about a probationary period?

foxinsocks · 31/12/2005 19:22

was he given a notice period (i.e. did it say he was dismissed but he could carry on working for a week)?

Freckle · 31/12/2005 19:26

Your dh should speak to his union's legal department. Don't forget union representatives are often just workmates who have little understanding of the whole legal situation.

CAB will offer very useful advice, but, depending on the complexity of the matter, you may need specialist legal advice. You can find details of solicitors specialising in employment law on the Law Society's website. Contact those in your area and find out if they do a free or reduced fee initial interview.

Janh · 31/12/2005 19:29

Thing is, many places have a 3-month (at least) probationary period, meaning termination with no notice from either side. As he started in August - what date? - was off sick for 2 weeks from the end of Nov (?) and then immediately took his pre-booked week's holiday (and many employers won't let you go straight from sick into holiday or vice versa), I would be surprised if he has any comeback at all.

CAB best place to start though, as soon as they're open next week. Good luck!

foxinsocks · 31/12/2005 19:31

I have a feeling (but really wouldn't trust my advice) that to be unfairly dismissed when you've worked for an employer for less than a year is quite tricky (i.e. has to be a specific reason to be able to claim unfair dismissal) however, not giving him notice of his dismissal is another matter (something like wrongful dismissal) and can be dealt with separately.

I imagine because it may be a bit complicated you will need someone who knows their stuff.

Janh · 31/12/2005 19:39

Probationary periods (from i-resign.com)

From SGH - London solicitors:

Original poster

HellyBelly · 31/12/2005 20:05

Wow, thanks for all the replies!!

We're looking at the links now, so thanks for those!

As for his probation period.....he was told he was on 3 months probation (although looking at the contract, this is not mentioned) when he started on 22nd August. 3 months ended on 22nd Novemeber (before he was off sick) and no mention of whether or not he was now full time, manager hardly ever in the office to talk to!! (he's also the director!)

We now don't know whether or not he is still on probation BUT, his contract states that for Performance related dismissal, they will give warnings verbally and written.

BTW, we've just been told that once the 3 months had passed, he would be presumed permanent UNLESS they said otherwise. Not sure if this is correct??

Anyway, we intend to get help from a specialist as this isn't a straight forward case. Just hope we get free advice first as we've literally just spent our last pound!

Thanks so much again for all your advice

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Janh · 31/12/2005 20:15

If there is nothing in his contract about probation then they are on a bit of a sticky wicket, although he is still in his first year of employment anyway; but that piece I quoted does say:

"In theory, failure to follow this procedure renders your dismissal ?automatically unfair? but in practice you are left with few remedies unless you have been unlawfully discriminated against, dismissed for the assertion of a statutory right, or dismissed for ?whistle-blowing? in which case you do not need one years service to bring a claim.

By way of explanation, examples of dismissal for the ?assertion of a statutory right? would include dismissal as a result of your objecting to deductions being made from your pay, when you ask to take paid time off, or if you take time off to deal with a family emergency.

In practice, if you are informed that you are not being kept on at the end of your probationary period and are not invited to a meeting to discuss it first, you would be wise to make a request for such a meeting in writing yourself."

Looks like he should initially request in writing a meeting to discuss. (Dunno what happens if they decline but at least he shows he knows the procedures.)

Original poster

HellyBelly · 31/12/2005 20:23

Well, he'll arrange a meeting and go from there (but will get advice first). He needs to arrange a meeting anyway as the car has to be returned on Friday!

Will let you know how we get on!

Thanks again

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LIZS · 31/12/2005 20:39

How long is his contracted notice period, is it really just 2 weeks ? If not, I think he is entitled to keep the car, or be paid in lieu, until his notice expires although it may be different if it is deemed purely as a tool of the trade rather than a perk.

Original poster

HellyBelly · 31/12/2005 20:48

He's been given his weeks notice and the car is due to be returned once that has passed.

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Shiraz · 02/01/2006 13:28

Hellybelly, my partner is taking his employers to court for constructive dismissal his wages have been slashed for nearly 4 months...leaving us 1000k down each MONTH. They have done so many other incredible things and his grievance meetings..well just a bloody joke... He has a company car and should be hading in his notice tomorrow.....which will leave us in shite creek. If they pay him in lieu we have no vehicle, and live in the middle of nowhere with no transport links.

I had to go out in November and get a temp job at argos (which i hate) just to buy food. Luckily they have kept me on a bit longer..but he's finding it hard to find another job and i only earn 8o-100 a week and we are two months behind with mortgage, have had to have an electric meter fitted as npower are tits..

CAB have given us great advice over the last few months...

Try this link..just pop in your post code and it will give you details of a solicitor/arbitrator in your area (we found acas shite too btw....they told us to stick thorugh it gether evidence, go through grievances and appeals etc..then just didnt know what to do next)

www.employment-solicitors.co.uk/

Honey i know what boat you are in so feel free to message me anytime..( i don't use mumsnet as often as i used to and am not sure how to message you)..but we could bot support each other....

TAKE CARE HUGE HUGS...BECS XXXXX

Shiraz · 02/01/2006 13:28

Hellybelly, my partner is taking his employers to court for constructive dismissal his wages have been slashed for nearly 4 months...leaving us 1000k down each MONTH. They have done so many other incredible things and his grievance meetings..well just a bloody joke... He has a company car and should be hading in his notice tomorrow.....which will leave us in shite creek. If they pay him in lieu we have no vehicle, and live in the middle of nowhere with no transport links.

I had to go out in November and get a temp job at argos (which i hate) just to buy food. Luckily they have kept me on a bit longer..but he's finding it hard to find another job and i only earn 8o-100 a week and we are two months behind with mortgage, have had to have an electric meter fitted as npower are tits..

CAB have given us great advice over the last few months...

Try this link..just pop in your post code and it will give you details of a solicitor/arbitrator in your area (we found acas shite too btw....they told us to stick thorugh it gether evidence, go through grievances and appeals etc..then just didnt know what to do next)

www.employment-solicitors.co.uk/

Honey i know what boat you are in so feel free to message me anytime..( i don't use mumsnet as often as i used to and am not sure how to message you)..but we could bot support each other....

TAKE CARE HUGE HUGS...BECS XXXXX

Shiraz · 02/01/2006 13:31

oops that should say 1k......

and as far as dp was aware (as he is a/was a manager) if your company has a 3 mth probation they can drop you with a click....BUT it should say that in a written contract....

Original poster

HellyBelly · 02/01/2006 14:25

Thanks so much for that. We're now in total down £1700(ish) with both our drops in income. I work 10 hours a day as a childminder so not really possible to get another job myself (I'm knackered enough as it is after our busy day and don't finish til 6.30pm, then it's cleaning and ds to bed - hopefully dh will get a bar job in evenings)

We're getting no tax credit at the moment (they reckon they overpaid us last year but I think more like they underpaid!)

Also, dh will loose the car on Friday which makes it very hard. I need my car for childminding (school run not local - 10 mins by car!) and the bus service here is terrible but dh will just have to rely on that

Feeling very down about this year, I need to really market my website business and work my butt off in the evenings to complete what work I get.

Would be lovely to have someone to moan to and vice versa.

Feel free to email me any time - helencorbett at tiscali dot co dot uk

I really hope you manage to sort yourselves out, horrible isn't it and such a worry! I will tell dh that you also found ACAS crap and I'll get him to call tomorrow morning! He's got a list for tomorrow.....he's calling solicitors/CAB, cancelling SKT tv and everything else we can get rid of, this will take a while I guess. He's then going into town to try and find a job through an agency or at least some temp work for now. Also needs to check out bar vacancies locally (don't think he's happy about doing bar work again at 44 though )

Thanks for your support!

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Shiraz · 02/01/2006 14:37

Oh and Helly i know just what you mean. DP is now 43 and at this stage in his life should be living comfortably and succesfully.

Let's hope this year is our year hun!!! We need to find the capital to get our business on it's feet.....here's hoping and i have emailed you chick! xxxxx

Original poster

HellyBelly · 02/01/2006 14:48

Just got it - will reply

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Original poster

HellyBelly · 02/01/2006 14:48

Just got it - will reply

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smw9927 · 03/01/2006 23:35

It is unlikely that he'll be able to claim unfair dismissal. I agree that the company should have followed the statutory 3 step procedure to effect a dismissal, but with less than a year's service, unfortunately the company can probably get away with not using it (unless he could claim unfair dimissal for the rights that don't need any service length).

However, if the company haven't paid him his proper notice, he could claim wrongful dimissal and be paid an amount to compensate him for that. Does his contract give him longer than the week's notice that they've paid him? If he had more annual leave accrued than he's taken, he should receive pay for that too.

Original poster

HellyBelly · 04/01/2006 12:50

We have a solicitor phoning this afternoon at 3.30pm. They briefly mentioned these possible reasons for sewing them:

Disability discrimination
Something to do with the right to take leave

Not sure if these help or whether the fact he's been there less than a year means he has no rights??

We'll see what they say later!

As for wrongful dismissal, a few have mentioned that but they have given a week's notice (not been paid yet though as not due til 16th) and that's all that was required as per contract (they give a week but he would have had to give a month, think that's normal though)

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