flexible working

[shellybelly]

Hiya

Just wondering has anyone gone through the flexible working process and been refused and what was the outcome if you appealed, basically I've worked for the same company for 8 years currently on mat leave taking jan as extra month, I wanted to go back part time (every other women in the comp who has had babies has been accommodated btw and gone back either to different job roles or part time hours)I feel upset and disappointed that they have not offered me an alternative and I think someone wants me out, I now have to write back to them appealing against their decision and reasons as to why I can't do my job part time, I got the letter xmas eve btw I was in tears not exactly the best xmas present i've ever had. Don't even know where to begin with the letter everytime i start it my mind goes blank and i end up in a tether, contacted acas sometimes you get someone really helpful other times its someone who babbles on and confuses things but at the end of the day they can only offer advice, am I being discriminated or not is what i want to know.
I would really appreciate any advice.
thanks all
oh and happy new year to everyone (just joined this website and its fab)

You need sis to advise. Would have thought that a precedent had been set by allowing others to work flexibly though.

Shellybelly, my flexible working application was rejected and it was one of the worst days of my life. I spoke to a lawyer and she advised that ultimately, I have a right to bring an action before an employment tribunal for sex discrimination and constructive dismissal, but before I take that route, to go through the entire internal appeal process first.

Your employer has the right to refuse your flexible working application under the flexible working regulations if it has "business reasons" for doing so eg the nature of your job is not conducive to flexible working. But if your company has offered flexible working to another employee doing very much the same job, then that is a clear case of discrimination. I would gather as much details about the other women who have had flexible working approved to incorporate into my appeal.

Does your company have an HR department?

At the end of the day, I jumped at another role with the same company which came with flexible working and never went to appeal - though I did threaten it subtly.

Bear in mind, the whole appeal process and tribunal is very stressful and not something you want to undertake lightly when you have a bubba to care for. The best thing is to get your case together and try to negotiate a compromise with your employer. But it helps to know how strong or weak your case is so you know how hard to push. All I can say is that you may technically have a case for sex discrimination/constructive dismissal, but that very much depends on the exact circumstances of your case.

Sorry I don't have time to write more now but will check on this thread later.

Shellybelly, are the other part-time women doing the same job as you? If so, then it would be hard for your employer to defend itself. If they are doing a different job then it might be different - it depends on whether or not your employer has a good business case for rejecting your application. Employers are entitled to reject applications on business grounds, as blueshoes says, but they are not allowed to refuse without good justification.

Unfortunately the new rights are only that you have the right to ask and get an answer. It is not an automatic right to get what you want, nor is it a right for the company to come up with suitable alternatives (though good companies who are keen to retain employees should be doing so).

I would have thought that your best option is not to write, but to go in and discuss this with the appropriate person, either your line manager or their line manager or an HR person. Try and look at it from the company's perspective - what skills and knowledge do you have, and how can this best be used. How can your current job best be managed - is it feasible for a job share etc. You are likely to get a better result through meeting and "selling" your proposal than via letters.

]The company shoudl have explained why your porposal was unsuitable - is there anything there that you could build in (eg very similar situation where the problems were overcome?)

Hiya
The other women do different roles to me, though the jobs they originally had were more important to the company and held more responsibly than mine did, yet they were offered reduced hours or offered part time work in other dept, this bit is laughable as I have been offered a "small reduction" basically take 1/2 hr for lunch so in effect I will be getting paid full time and working full time but taking half hour lunch, everyone in the company is entitled to work thro lunch and go early so how they can say its a reduction is beyond me, basically its full time or nothing, some of their points for refusal i can back myself up but others have really confused me, bunch of very smart words basically which don't make sense to me, really didn't think this would happen to me, also laughable is they are all for IIP, ha!!!

Shellybelly, I agree that the "offer" to reduce your hours is no offer at all. I would have thought that the company having offered alternative flexible roles to those other women is also setting some form of precedent that could support a discrimination claim on your part, even if the company is not legally obliged to do so under the flexible working regulations.

I understand if everything is jumping out at you at the moment - I was filled with blind panic when faced with the prospect of having to quit because of a stubborn employer. Ultimately, your only stick is that law and for that, I don't think you can get away from seeking proper legal advice from an employment lawyer who can advise you on your circumstances, read your employer's letter etc.

But before you even think of blowing a hole in your wallet, you might want to consider how likely the threat of a tribunal case would go down with your employer and whether they know there obligations under the law to begin with. Do your employers have a reputation to protect eg if they are always recruiting. Does your company have an HR dept? Are they good for the money if you sue them? Have they ever defended an employment action before or are they more likely to settle quietly?

Hi
The have an HR dept well one person really, but from their letter they seem to be doing things correctly, but some of their reasons look almost copied from the list that is one the DTI website flexible working rights (do you know which ones i mean) they also told me their was a hold on recruitment as the company was not doing well but when I asked some friends from friend they said they were slighly down but there was nothing to worry about and they are advertising jobs on the comp website, like you say I could be overreacting but if I was that valued by them which is in the letter btw I would have thought they could have found an alternative

After 8 years with a company, you are more than entitled to feel that your employer should have done more to try and retain you. But some times, you have to remind them of your worth IYKWIM.

Those jobs which are advertised on the company website, are any of them flexible or could be done flexibly eg if they are the same sorts of jobs that were offered to those other women?

Although not in the same situation when I went back to work I was just at the end of a 2 year temp contract. 2 weeks after going back my job came up on a permanent basis - I was the only applicant and I was offered the job but £5000 less. I took advice from the Maternity Rights Alliance and kept repeating the fact that it was discrimination and that although I had no choice but to accept their terms that I was giving them notice that i intended to pursue the matter internally and externally if need be. They tried to haggle but I kept repeating myself and they caved. I could not have done this without advice.

The Maternity Rights Alliance has unfortunatley closed but their website recommends:
www.workingfamilies.org.uk

or you could try the Acas helpline on
08457 47 47 47 Monday - Friday 08:00 - 18:00