Disciplinary hearing with no informal meeting

[Ohanythingwilldo]

I am trying to help a friend prepare for a disciplinary hearing next week.

Firstly, there has been no informal meeting or discussion, just a letter to invite her to a disciplinary meeting early next week.

Also, the issues mentioned are not solely the responsibility of my friend but a shared task with 2 other staff but she appears to be a scapegoat.

How does it stand with regards to procedure if there has been no informal meeting.

Is there anything we can do about the fact that the other people involved have been overlooked with regards to disciplinary action?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks

There is no requirement to have an informal meeting prior to the disciplinary hearing. As long as the letter gives enough information to allow your friend to prepare for the hearing her employer is following the correct procedure.

Is your friend certain she is the only one facing disciplinary action?

The employer is not required to take action against all three employees if they believe your friend is solely responsible for the issues even though the task is shared with others. However, if your friend has evidence that the other members of staff are at fault she can raise this in the disciplinary meeting.

If it's a single issue or incident that the employer believes is a disciplinary issue, or potentially a disciplinary issue, there is no need for any informal meeting.

If, on the other hand, it was a disciplinary hearing about poor performance in a more general sense; no one specific incident, and there had been no informal meetings to try to address the situation, that might be different.

Can you say what she is supposed to have done?

Sorry to hijack thread slightly, but can I ask:
Flowery, if there have been no informal meetings to address the situation, and the situation has come right out of the blue totally unexpectedly having never, ever been brought up before (even though Grievance Policy says this is what should happen, ie go down informal route first), then can the workplace be accused of not adhering to their own policies in say an employment tribunal if things go that far?

Prh47, what if the employer gives you no information as to the real detail of what you have been accused of, therefore you are totally unable to prepare anything for the meeting, when you are likely to be totally stressed and will probably forget to say things that may help to defend you, had you been able to prepare notes and yourself before the meeting?

The issue is about my friend taking the blame for some things that went wrong during a meeting with a customer. There were 3 people and a project manager. The Project Manager did not take any responsibility, (probably as it was managing a technical process they did not understand). My friend was a member of the technical team where there were 2 other people of equal standing who are not being disciplined.

My friend took the initiative and made a decision which unfortunately was wrong, (if the Project Manager had done her job properly, she would have taken care of this issue). The error was not noticed by the project manager and the other team members did not step in to correct it. My friend appears to be a scapegoat and I am wondering what steps can be taken during the disciplinary.

Bearcat - The employer MUST give you enough information to allow you to prepare for the disciplinary meeting. If they do not they have failed to follow the ACAS Code of Practice which puts them in a weak position if it ends up at Tribunal.

Ohanythingwilldo - I am not sure why getting a technical decision wrong is a disciplinary matter unless there have been ongoing performance issues and this was the final straw.

On the limited information you have posted it doesn't immediately sound to me like your friend is being made a scapegoat. It sounds like she got something wrong and is potentially being disciplined for that. The other two members of the technical team did not take part in this decision. Did they have the necessary skills and knowledge to mean that they should have known that your friend had made the wrong decision? And was there an opportunity for them to intervene?

I note you say the PM should have taken care of this issue but you also say it was a technical process they did not understand. A PM is frequently dependent on advice from team members on matters where they don't have the necessary skills themselves. So how do you think the PM should have taken care of this issue?

Prh47.
Does the employer have to give you enough information to defend yourself even for an investigatory meeting?

Prh47 - thanks for your comments. It is a bit difficult to explain as I can not go into too many details about the incident.

I believe the other 2 team members should be disciplined too as they are the same rank and ability and saw what was being done. Neither of them stepped in to prevent the situation, they agreed to go with it.

I think the PM should have had responsibility as the problem occured due to inappropriate items being taken into an area. This was not a technical decision but something that should have been done in preparation by the PM.

Sorry for the vague explaination but your comments are really appreciated

Bearcat - the investigatory meeting is not the disicplinary hearing. It is evidence gathering to see if a hearing is needed. Therefore at this point there is no information to defend if you see what I mean?

Ohany - I think you are defending your friend too much. They made the decision to do whatever they did. Yes the others may have known it was wrong but in the end your friend made the wrong decision. The employer could be waiting for what is said to decide if others need action against them

Thanks for your comments Uglymush. Perhaps I am defending her too much but I thought it seemed unfair that the person who took some initiative to get things done, ends up being disciplined whilst the ones who stood back and did nothing, (and would have let the procedure fall apart), get off. I realise that the decision was wrong but nobody else, including the Project Manager, was doing anything.

Maybe I am clutching at straws. Have to try!

I do appreciate from the outside looking in it does seem unfair. Hopefully your friend willl get the chance to say 'sorry I got it wrong but if I didn't do something everything would have fallen apart' or whatever similar needs to be said. Sorry I am the one usually doing the hearings, but I do appreciate it is a scary time.

Bearcat - As Uglymush says your employer doesn't have to give you any information before an investigatory meeting, although the usefulness of the meeting may be limited if they don't tell you anything. However, for a formal disciplinary meeting they must give you enough information to prepare.

Ohanythingwilldo - It is difficult to follow when you are having to be vague! But I agree with Uglymush that you need to concentrate on your friend's situation. Complaining at this stage about the lack of action against other team members is unlikely to help. However, highlighting how the situation arose and the fact that your friend took responsibility to try and sort things out whilst others were doing nothing may help.

Imagine situation in an operation. three nurses there clearing patient up after op, alongside an anaesthetist (sp?) who knows his job, but not the nurses job.

One nurse does something wrong, other two see it being done and say nothing.

IMHO nurse who did it should get disciplined, and then pending the outcome of that investigation you would then look at whether the other 2 were at fault. Because quite clearly if disciplinary finds that first nurse is found to have done nothing wrong then you are not going to bother disciplining the other 2.

Regardless of specifics of particular situation for your friend, IMO only if the other two colleagues had specific responsibility for approving/reviewing work as it is done would there be a case for disciplining all 3 at the same time. Otherwise makes logical sense to approach step by step.