Sign document or hold out for redundancy

[mamadeux]

I am looking for advice and would be grateful for any contributions. Basically I have worked for the same company for 8 years. However they are 'outsourcing' our jobs to another company. They say this would not be a tupe agreement as it is entirely voluntary. Do I sign up for it or do I refuse and hold out for redundancy?

Can you still claim Job Seeker's Allowance if you've left voluntarily?

If I signed the document voluntarily I would be working for the new company with new terms and conditions, including less redundancy. Alternatively I could refuse to sign it and remain working for the original company which would result in a good reduncy payment. I just don't know what to do as they say redundancy is not an option. But surely if my job is redundant they have to make me redundant.

Are you sure that if you are made redundant that the pament will be "good". Won't they simply have to give you the statutory payment (which isn't that great unless you have years and years under your belt).

How are they getting out of TUPE - are you a member of a union?

My current redundancy terms are 3.75 wks for every year (c.25k), but in the new company it is only statutory.

Oh I see that you have worked there for 8 yeasr. Assuming that you are under 42 then your maximum payout would be £2,240 (assuming that you earn £280 per week or more), or 8 weeks pay if less.

They are getting out of tupe because it is an 'invitation' and union not recognised nor invited to meetings.

You need legal advice. If you are a member of a union, contact them. If not, call the Department for Trade and Industry - the part of the government that administers employment legislation. Or phone up some employment solicitors and ask if you can half half an hour free, or see if you can get a reccomendation from Citizen's Advice Bureau.

Don't sign anything until you have had legal advice.

Are your redundancy terms explicitly set out in your contract or is that the offer that is usually made in "voluntary Redundancy" circumstances?

Redundancy terms forms part of job security agreement with union.

Even if the union is not recognised, if you are a member, you can ask them for legal advice.

Actually the fact that they won't recognise the union sends a very strong signal that they are crappy employers who will try to wriggle out of their legal obligations. Employers have to recognise unions where employees want them to - that's the law - but some use every trick in the book to avoid it. You need proper legal advice anyway, but even more so when you are dealing with a crappy employer like this.

Defintiely wouldn't sign without more advice.

Hi Mandymac's Hubby here.

They cannot outsource you with out TUPEing your current terms and conditions . It cannot be voluntary if you do not have a choice, if your job is to be outsourced that is something that will be forced upon you, and legally they do not have a leg to stand on .
If I was you I would get myself down to the CAB and get them to talk through the legalities before I decide on anything, as it seems to me that both companies are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

Thanks Mandymac's hubby. It's great to get advice from everyone and nice to know that partners are contributing too.

Has anyone else experienced this/have any advice for me please?

Have to be quick ..but don't understand how they are getting out of TUPE since TUPE applies to most outsourcing situations. Can you give us some more info - what exactly is transferring (e.g. a particular unit or function?) and how many people are going? If you choose not to go across (which is always an option in any TUPE situation) then will your old employer keep you employed or not? And if they will keep you employed, are they offering to keep you in your current job on the same terms or something else? And do you want to stay or transfer? Sorry to bombard you with questions but will need the answers to help you! (As will the CAB). Be back this evening and will lok in on this thread again..

whether or not TUPE applies is a matter of law not something that your current employers and the outsourcing company can just decide between themselves. I am not sure what your employers are up to but I don't like it.

In answer to rickshaw: Information Technology (about 500 workers). If I didn't go across I would remain an emloyee of original co. I don't know if I would be doing the same job or not if I stayed, but given my present terms and conditions I'd rather stay- but what they would have me doing I don't know..........

How hard would it be for you to find another job? £25k will not go far if you are left out of work for two years (it took me a year and I had to switch out of IT). I would be quite keen on transferring in order to ensure I had a job.

It looks like a TUPE transfer to me (I now work in HR); perhaps you could combine with other employees to get legal advice?

I'm not sure what you want to get out of it. Do you want to (a) keep your current job (b) get redundancy fom your current employer or (c) have your job transferred under TUPE to the new employer? If you can decide that, it will help you to decide what to do next.

Still not sure how they are trying to get out of TUPE - if the work is transferring over to a new employer then TUPE would normally apply. Sounds like you need more info to make a decision on next steps.