Yet another PT hours / Public holiday question

[BerylStreep]

Ok, I know this has been done to death, and if you asked me, I would be confident that I am right (although always some room for doubt ), but I think my HR manager has got it wrong in relation to my PH entitlement. Can someone in the know please double-check my calculations?

I work 25 hrs of a 40 hr week, doing 6.25hrs a day for 4 days a week (a full day is 8 hrs). This year we get 11 public holidays.

I think that as I work 4 out of 5 days, I therefore get 4/5ths of the public holidays which is 8.8 days, rounded up to 9 (for a 6.25 hr day).

My HR manager has said that I get my PHs pro rata (correct) and has said that he works it out at 11 days, divide by 40 multiply by 25, which is 6.8 days rounded up to 7 days.

My argument is that whilst it is correct that we get public holidays on a pro rata basis, part of the pro rata element is that I am being paid for 6.25 hours a day, rather than 8.

I explained to my HR manager, to illustrate the point, that if I worked my 25 hrs a week at 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, I would therefore get every public holiday off, but would be paid for only 5 hours for each PH, - he disagrees, and says in such a scenario he would still calculate the number of days at 25/40.

Surely this is wrong?

The easiest way to illustrate it may be to do it in hours.

So the 11 BH translate as 88 hours off. You work 25/40ths of the time, so should get 25/40ths of those hours, which is 55 hours; which equates to 8.8 days at 6.25 hours a day, or 6.8 days at 8 hours a day. Given you work 6.25 a day, this seems to clearly show you are entitled to 8.8 days of that length.

I agree with PatriciaHolm. There is nothing wrong with your HR Manager's calculation of 25/40ths as long as he converts the answer to hours, so you should get 11 x 25/40 = 6.8 days rounded to 7 then 7 x 8 hours = 56 hours entitlement.

It will take you 8.96 days to use this entitlement because you are part time, even though he has only 'given' you 7 days.

You will need to make up 0.04 of a day (your day) which is 15 minutes if you want to take the full nine days off.

Thanks Patricia - I agree. (I have already used the hours illustration with HR, to no avail). Honestly, in my mind it is so straightforward - I can't understand why he can't see it.

OK. The simplest way to show it is to convert everything to hours.

So, a fulltimer would get 11 x 8 hours = 88 hours.

You get 25/40 of this entitlement which equals 56 hours. He cannot reduce your entitlement any further than this because, by doing so, he will have pro-rataed your entitlement twice.

If you still have no luck, telephone the Acas Helpline on 08457 47 47 47.

*55 hours Can't believe I got it wrong -twice!

Thanks somersetmum.

That's a good way of explaining what is going on - he is applying the pro rata element twice.

Just signed up so if this question has been asked sorry. I was recently tuped into a new company and they r trying to harmonise terms and conditions. They have sent out a draft handbook and on getting to the 2nd page read "only entitled to bank holidays if it falls on your working day". I work Tue, wed, thurs! My current handbook/contract says "part time workers are entitled to pro rata bank holidays" full Time staff get 12 bank holidays so I get about 7, which I will loose.

I am the only staff member who works Tue, wed thurs. All others part timers work Mon. I choose not to as I know I would get them.pro rata

Anyone came across this

sounds a bit mental - everyone's going to be rushing for the Monday/Friday days with that deal! If it's a draft, now is the ideal time to point it out to them - are you in a union?

Yes, sent an email today. I am the only staff member out of 300 it affects! Everyone told me to work Mon when I went part time but at the time made no difference.

avac if you have been TUPE'd then your original contractal terms remain until they officially negotiate otherwise. Your company can have a different handbook which is fine but they should still have copies of the policies relating to staff covered by TUPE.

They can't just remove any entitlement and tbh the wording you've quoted looks discriminatory to part-time workers which has been illegal for a quite a while now. It can be seen to be indirect sex discrimination to penalise part time workers because they tend to be women.

It is possible a mistake has been made?

OP you are right as has been demonstrated.

Katie, thank you. I never tire of being told I am right.

Avac I have found that politely mentioning that the proposed contract may be contrary to the Part-time workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 can come in handy in these situations.

Actually Avac, I have just been thinking about your company's proposal. Lots of places which work shifts have policies where the bank holiday cannot be rerostered, but if the bank holiday falls on a rest day, then the rest day can be rerostered (it is effectively the same thing). Perhaps this is what they mean? It would need to be explicitly stated in these terms though.

Avac, I work part time in the NHS, and work tue wed and fri so no mondays either. They work out my leave in hours, then add on 3/5 of the bank holiday entitlements to that, so I get those BH hours off, just not on the BH's themselves. But, because I work fridays, i had to take good friday as leave and take those hours off my leave hours, whereas full time staff get it automatically. It does make sense to me now!

I was googling it recently and on one website (don't know which, sorry!) it did say that those who work part time and work on a monday do end up with more time off, over a period of time, but that this was an anomaly that isn't covered in law.