Do mums ever get promoted (especially part timers)??

[Jynxed]

I have been a mum and worked part time for the last 10 years. The last time I was promoted was shortly before I realised I was pregnant the first time.

I think I am good at my job. My annual review is always good, I have a reputation for being hard working and competant. I believe I am well liked.

So, is it a coincidence that the opportunities for advancement always goes elsewhere? Or do part time mums never get promoted?

I simmer quietly watching younger and less experienced people (with either no kids or a stay at home partner) slide past me on the greasy pole.

Do you think mums are just not seen as senior staff material? Or that part timers are considered insufficiently committed? Or do I give off the wrong message with my photos on my desk and my proud talk of my off spring?

My DH, who was on a similar level in the same industry before we had children, now earns nearly twice as much as me. He also has photos on his screen saver and talks about his family, but probably not as much as me, and he is not part time.

I know I should ask, but I am frightened of hearing something I won't like (I am a very harsh self critic, and obviously know more than anyone else where I could have done something better, so worry that may be secretly everyone thinks I'm crap) or being seen as pushy or whiny.

Does anyone else have this issue? How do you present yourself as willing and ready for promotion? Or should I just be grateful still to have a job in this climate, and to have negotiated reduced hours?

I would welcome your thoughts . . .

Why are you "simmering quietly watching"? Why are you not doing something about it? Do you think you might be giving the impression that you're not really interested in promotion, that all you want is a "little part time job"? And people are perhaps thinking, "Oh Jynxed would be great at this job, but she clearly doesn't want promotion, she's quite happy where she is."

I've never worked part time, but my career has really taken off since I had children - I got accelerated promotion, which was a great surprise to me, as I had always been a bit of a plodder. And there are women in my organisation who work part time, and have done so for years, and are very senior. Although there has definitely been the attitude in some of the offices I have worked in that "it's lovely to see a hands on Dad" (who nips out to go to school plays/pick up sick children from school) whereas working mothers (who do the same thing!) "are a complete pain in the arse - never there."

You should ask - either when you have your next review, or ask to have a meeting with your boss separately and raise it then - "I've noticed that although I always get excellent appraisals, that people who are less experienced than me are given opportunity for promotion, whereas I am not. Why do you think this is? What should I be doing to get promoted?"

Well I have been working part time since September 2009 in a nursery and this week, I have been promoted to deputy manager. I didn't think it would happen, but not because of the fact I work part time, more the fact that all of us who work at the nursery are part time/mums and the current deputy has been there for over 5 years since the current owner took over.

It was touch and go though because the owner wanted full time. I can't commit to full time, but we have managed to thrash out an agreement that will work for both of us.

I was asked what I thought about the job/role and if I knew anyone who could do it. I immediately nominated myself lol. I'm not normally like that, but an opportunity presented itself and, being the most highly qualified member of staff in the place, thought I would be mad to at least not register my interest.

Glad I did now!

1 have ant jobs that are promotions and part time become
available? Or are you willing to change to full time?
2 have you applied fir any promotions?

Tricky.

Generally speaking, the higher status the job, the more likely it is that its a full time post. That doesn't mean anyone is being treated unfairly, simply that those willing to work full time are more likely to fit the criteria.

What are your reasons for wanting to work part time? Thats not a loaded question btw. I am just assuming that from your perspective, there are advantages to being part time , whether its wanting less pressure, less responsibility, less time in the work place. The flip side of this coin is that when promotions crop up, which require more hours/ pressure etc, people may well assume this isn't what you want.
I cant see any point in comparing yourself with your husband, precisely because he hasn't followed the same career path as you- he has continued full time.
One other thought - you mention your 'proud talk' about your children. Is this within the normal range of conversation, or are you expecting colleagues to listen to every detail of your offspring? If its the latter, then you need to rein it in. Your work colleagues won't appreciate hearing all about your children during the working day.
Lastly, are you planning to increase your hours? You don't mention how old your children are, but I'm assuming maybe school age as you've been part time for a long time. If you're getting frustrated by the lack of promotion, I would consider whether now is the time to step back up. I worked part time while my children were small, but returned to full time when the youngest was 4, and tbh I would not have got the promotions I've had if id remained part time. Think about the balance of your career overall, and how others perceive you- ie: would they see you as a career minded person who took a step back to part time while the children were little, but is essentially looking for career progression? Or would they see you as someone who once had a full time career, but isn't interested in that any more, and is just continuing working to pay the bills ? There is nothing wrong with either option, but I think you need to be clear about what YOU want, otherwise your boss and colleagues wont stand a chance of knowing!

I have had 3 promotions in 7 years since having kids and all of that is part time. I have done a lot in my own time to make me a more attractive candidate and I still do extra stuff, more because I find it stimulating and engaging than because I need to. I work in the NHS
I rarely talk about the children at work unless asked.

They do get promoted (I have been) but they have to be quite upfront about putting themselves forward.

People that get to the senior levels tend to do so because they network, negotiate, advertise themselves and make other people aware of their achievements. Some of them also do get brownie points for 'presenteisim' and being very flexible. Only the last bit will pull you down, all the rest is possible (although can feel very uncomfortable for women in general).

It sounds to me like you're putting out the wrong signals. You've been in the same job for 10 years and not been promoted?

To be blunt, if I knew someone had been in a job for 10 years, unless they were being pretty upfront about wanting career progression, I'd assume that they were happy where they were. That might be the wrong assumption, and your line manager should of course have discussed this with you at annual appraisals, but if you haven't been raising it either they have probably fallen into a pattern of assuming you are happy with the status quo and progress is not one of your priorities.

When is your next appraisal? Does it contain a section on targets and goals where you could raise this? If it's a while off, is there a manager you could talk to? I wouldn't dwell on the history, just be really positive "I've been having a think. I've been in my current role for quite a while now. I really want to progress and move up, so I'd like to have a chat about what I can do to develop my skills, or develop a specialism [or whatever it would be in your job] and look at putting myself foward for things."

I've been promoted three times in eight years while working part-time. You have to take opportunities when they arise and I've found it vital to be flexible. This has meant on occasion taking work home, working extra hours, staying away from home, attending evening events etc. etc.

Do be pro-active about your career
Do make arrangements to attend training, development and networking events (don't say, I can't it's not my working day / I have to pick up the kids etc.)
Don't call yourself a 'part-timer'
If you are working from home do be clear that you have childcare in place and are working - I once called someone up in working hours and her mother said she had gone to the supermarket!
I don't have photos of family on display but plenty of people do - especially the fathers that are always in the office
Do share care of sick children with your husband - shows you are equally committed to work
Staying 10 years in one job is a long time, unless the role has changed you are probably stagnating
Good luck

I've been promoted after kids - got my current role the day before going on maternity leave for DS2. Since then I've declined a small increase in responsibilities and a huge increase in admin with no more pay on the basis that the DCs were small and I could not give the extra responsibilities the focus I felt they deserved (ahem). As the DCs get older it seems to be heading my way again, but that's another issue!

When people in our organisation reach a certain level they have to ask for promotion. If they don't bring it up, we assume they're not keen/ sufficiently ambitious.

I'd be happy with someone whose priorities had changed as his or her children got older, but obviously your future behaviours need to match the stated change in your ambition - you need to be seen to be trying hard. Office politics maybe, but also just the way of the world. Increasing your visibility could be as easy as telling someone what you are doing, rather than being a quiet and unsung heroine. Sometimes that's harder with kids, if the "normal" way to boast to your boss is to bring up your achievements in a casual way in the pub after work on a Friday, but that just means you need to think smarter about how you do that.

And I agree with others, make sure you sound professional even when you're not working! I called a colleague who was working at home this week. The message came back he was looking after his daughter for the next 2 hours and I could call him after 2pm when she would have had her nap. is not an adequete emoticon. If he'd said he was tied up on something else till 2pm but would ring me asap, I would have been as happy as larry and never suspected a thing.

Good post OP. I have worked part time for 9 years, and like you have great reviews, am well liked, am hard working and conscientious. But no, never been promoted.

Sucks doesn't it?

Hi
I can understand how you feel I went back to work 4.5 years ago part time and am still in the same role. For the first couple of years i was happy with that but recently I have taken on a lot more responsibility. I have stayed where I am because I have a lot of flexibility so really appreciated that.

My youngest child is just about to turn 8 and I have been making it clear for over a year that I wish to progress, I have been doing everything that my manager has told me I need to do, I have been getting good feedback and have been told regularly that I am doing better than my more senior and well paid colleagues effectively doing the same job...however it has made no difference.

It has come to a point now where my frustration is starting to outweight the benefits of the flexibility, therefore it is now up to me to take action. I applied for another job earlier in the week and found out today that I have an interview soon, being internal I had to tell my manager I was applying for the role so she now knows why. It may come to nothing or I may get a new job, however I feel better knowing that I am taking action to further my career.

I was also given feedback a while ago that I mentioned a lot of the time that I was part time, so may not be able to attend x meeting or do y. I was advised that this was potentially giving colleagues a false impression of me and that if I said nothing they probably wouldn't even know I was PT as I was doing everything I needed to within my hours. Perhaps it is worth finding out from your colleagues what impression you give them.

Best of Luck
ML

Good post morleylass.

Interesting about the point: "I was also given feedback a while ago that I mentioned a lot of the time that I was part time, so may not be able to attend x meeting or do y."

OP - if you are giving off this signal (whether overtly or not) then people will feel that you aren't looking for the responsibility of promotion. Also, if the higher status jobs would rely on you being able to attend briefings, meetings etc which at the moment you might not be available for, then how would you square that?

TBH, if a higher status job can genuinely be done on part time hours, then I can't see many employers who would balk at giviing someone good a promotion. However, if the role is better done by someone who is flexible, or available every day, then you can see why it's more likely to be a full timer who gets it

Yes, I just promoted a mum with flexible (altho full -time) working arrangements this very week.

Not because she is a mum mind you - but because she delivers the work.

I think it's a good point that many part time women unwittingly give off negative 'I'm part time' signals. I was once given some very good advice about being a part time woman. I got told (from a very senior female director) "women always make a fuss about being part time. When men do it, or need to leave for an assembly or whatever, they are more likely to just get on with it and not explain it." I took that on board and I tend to, if a meeting is scheduled when I don't work, just say I can't make it. Better still, I get in first before the meeting is scheduled and say X, Y and Z are good for me. It's noticable how much better the response from colleagues is.

I completely agree RibenaBerry. I block out my diary on those times when I really do not want meetings to be arranged (eg 5-7pm - yes it does happen in my company!)

Unfortunately, it is true that the higher you get, the more usual it is for the job to generally be full time.

Thanks for your responses everyone - a lot of food for thought there. I probably do mention too much that I am part time, as its a form of defence. One of my biggest problems is avoiding working full time on a part time salary, which I very nearly do, both in the office and in additional work taken home.

To answer a question asked a few times - no, I haven't actually applied for a promotion, so I accept that most of the fault is my own. I work in the sort of organisation which is theoretically open for anyone to apply for a position, but in reality jobs are designed with certain people in mind and strong indicators given on who should apply. Also, senior part time jobs don't seem to come up to be applied for.

All my kids are now at school and if I could be given a reasonable degree of flexibility I could increase to full time, so now is the time to put myself out there. I just need to find a way to put that vibe out (not the best economic environment). I certainly don't use the kids to get out of the office, as none of them have missed a day at school for 5 years now. I have only asked to work at home once, and that was just for 2 days after I broke my arm.

Although I've been in the same job for 10 years, it hasn't been in the same organisation. I actually took a downgrade a number of years ago as my husband got a job in another part of the country, so I had to find a new job in a new town. Same basic thing, but moving out of London meant a lower salary. And then 3 years ago I moved again, but once more not entirely by choice, but because work was drying up and I had to go where the contracts were. I moved on exactly the same grade and pay (although greater travel costs, so effectively another pay cut!). A previous boss recruited me to follow him there, so I must be seen as a good employee or he wouldn't have poached me.

I will read through all your comments with care and see if I can plan my strategy. I think increasing my confidence must be number one point, but perhaps looking at self funding some training if I can squeeze the time and money from somewhere might be another option.

Thanks again everyone.

In the last year I have promoted two mums :)

Both are part time.

Another one who is part-time and gets promoted, I'm also a single parent. I'm now a senior manager in the NHS. The jobs I go for are advertised full-time or I hear that they are planning to advertise them and I just let it be known that I am interested.

I know I could be promoted further but not sure I can be bothered and hope to reduce from four to three days in the next 12 months. I think so much is about attitude and approach. I am very upfront about being part-time, but in the sense of 'how can we work together so that my not being full-time means the service won't suffer?'

Get practicing sone of the suggestions here, don't get angry.

I work part-time (3 days) and I'm about to apply for promotion. All the jobs are advertised as full time but having discussed this with HR, the process is that I can ask to do any job on a part-time basis. The rules are that I have to say up front. I know I am a strong candidate (all my full-time peers have been promoted years ago) but competition is stiff. Should I

a) phone the recruiting person and ask if the role is available part-time before applying
b) apply anyway but phone/email and say I'd like to discuss flexibility
c) not say anything until the interview

My worry with a) is that they will say no without even seeing my cv. c) is breaking the company policy, but at least I would get interview practice even if I don't get the job but might annoy them. b) gets my cv seen but I still might not get an interview.

What should I do?

p.s. agree with lots of the above comments. I never mention that I am part-time other than to people in my department. My out of office just says that I'm out of the office on that particular day. It doesn't say "I'm out every wednesday" it just says "out on Wednesday 6th April, back in on the 7th please contact x if its urgent". We all know that its difficult for part-timers to cope but thats for us to worry about not anyone else (other than immediate line managers). Others should have a perception that we cope well rather than struggle.

p.p.s. although I don't hide the fact I'm part-time. I'm proud to talk about it if anyone asks. I just don't publicise it if you see what I mean.

p.p.p.s. and in the comments to my appraisal ever year I always thank the company for allowing me to enjoy an interesting and high profile role on a part-time basis. Only my manager and his manager see that (and possibly some people in HR) but I think it shows a positive attitude. I also say that I feel ready for more responsibility and promotion - they seem to respond by giving me the extra responsibility but not the promotion which is why I'm now applying for other roles!