Being 'made' to look for employment but heart not really in it :(

[Alishanty]

I haven't worked since I was pg with my first child (now 4.5). I did have a couple of jobs before this after I left uni but in customer service/admin roles, ok but not my dream job or anything. tbh don't know what my dram job would be. We now have a 2.5 yr old aswell. For the past couple of yrs, since we moved to another area my dp has struggled to find work. He had a temp job last yr but it ended after a few mths as he was no longer required. Now, out of desperation and to prevent dp being put on another pointless new Deal course we decided (or was it dp that decided?!) that I should be the one to sign on and look for work. I am not totally against this but tbh I don't really want to work full time or weekends/strange hrs because of the dcs. However, the job centre have said that because I have dp around to look after them I can't be too picky, if i was a single parent I could be more choosy. The thing is, i know I would still have to do alot of the things to do with the dc, I have had to take them to the job centre for intance, something he never had to do when he was signing on. He says he is still looking for work but tbh the pressure is on me. If my dd was at school I would feel better about it but tbh I resent the fact that single parents and people with partners can work part time and I could be forced into a full time job and miss out on time with my dd. Because of this and the fact that although I have school/uni qualifications, I have had no training since I left uni, haven't got much experience (apart from admin roles) and don't really know what I want to do I feel stuck in a rut and get quite stressed and despondent about it. My family don't help, I know they look down on my dp for not having a job (I haven't admitted he lost his last one) and they probably would more so if I ended up working full time and supporting the family. Sorry to sound like I'm moaning, I will work for my family's sake if I have to, I just don't know where to go from here. I have applied for jobs, had one interview which I didn't get and plenty of rejections. Does anyone know if I would be allowed to work pt and have tax credits to top up? that seems like a reasonable option to me and then hopefully dp could get a pt job to fit in around the dcs?

Ok guess I will have to carry on working then....

Not sure why anyone thinks ops partner is so useless. Or are men born with a special gene that makes them constantly employable at all times even in the midst of an economic crisis? Whoever can get a job should do so and the one who can't stays at home.

1- Paragraphs.

2- get a grip

3- get a job.

Op not come back then?!

The partner's even more useless, IMO, because he's unwilling to do any parenting whilst she looks for work (or, from the sound of it, whilst she's at work if she lands a job).

was going to post something, but can't even be bothered. It kills me tax money is being wasted on supported 2-parents families, while those who really struggle, well, struggle on.

Me again, the one with the controversial idea that kids need mums...

I didn't intend to attack any other mum for working and I'm definitely not saying that working mums = feral kids. I was attacking the system! The Government want it both ways and I think there is a consequence to that.

I'm a working mum myself as it goes and my kids are lovely (so far). My message came over a bit cross and unfair - I see that. Probably in too much of a rush and probably because I'm due to go back to work in a fortnight leaving a 9 month old baby and an emotional 3 yr old and I'm dreading it and worrying about it since reading that book 'Affluence' (don't read it just before sending kids to nursery whatever you do).

I have been dwelling on the wider issue of work and mothers for months now as the return date grows nearer and this just seemed to hit a nerve.

So many posts on this board are from mums going through the emotional wringer on the subject of work. The guilt, the sheer physical challenge of it all and the distress. I think it's unfair and I wonder how we as a society got to this point? I'm proud to call myself a feminist and I would argue to the death to protect a woman's right to work, but I don't think it's 'bollocks' to say that kids on the whole need a family member, preferably a mum to care for them, particularly in the early years. It's not a political view point, it's a psychological one. Sadly most of us don't get the chance to stay with our kids even though we want to.

I still sympathise with the main gist of the OP's predicament. Many of us are going through the same thing. She said she felt stressed and despondent. I'm sure with all these supportive words she'll be back on her feet in no time...

Bump - KCS I would like to add my support to your controversial views. It seems that everyone has been brainwashed into thinking that mothers going out to work is the only way of doing things and not realising that looking after children IS work and bloody hard work as well! Why shouldn't it be PAID for? We will have real equality when women's work is valued not seen as something you fit round a real job. At the moment many employers are not child friendly and the stress of juggling childcare mostly falls on the woman - often the lion's share of the housework as well. In many cases it is now taking two wages to pay for the mortgage/rent so there is less financial benefit and no choice as to whether to return to work - is that really progress? If there is good child care support and suitable hours then working outside the home could be beneficial but a day involving breakfast club/school/aftercare i.e. 8-6pm seems a very long day for young children (I know I would have hated it).

Yes, but your argument falls apart when the question of WHO should pay people to stay at home looking after their children is raised?

The only way this could be funded is through the tax payer. So, in other words, you expect other people to work so that some people can not work?

Pointless argument.

As for whether the lion's share of childcare and housework comes down to the mother - well, that's down to couples to sort out. If you choose to partner a man who doesn't see you as his equal, then more fool you. Many men these days do want equality as much as women. They don't want to be the sole earner while their wife is at home all day, any more than many women don't want to be at home all day and not using their professional skills. IMO it definitely is progress that men and women aren't defined by the narrow stereotypes of SAHM and sole provider which they were a few generations back

I just can't believe how horrible people have been on this thread to the OP. Leave aside the rights and wrongs of her decisions, there was no need for people to speak to her like that. No wonder she never came back on, she was probably off somewhere in floods of tears. I'm quite new to Mumsnet and can't believe it can be like this. What on earth is wrong with a mother wanting to stay at home with her small children? It strikes me that this lady probably doesn't have much confidence and I can empathise with that - I too have a degree but haven't worked in graduate-level jobs and was only in the workplace for a relatively short period of time before going on maternity leave. She almost certainly feels daunted at the thought of going back to work and a fat lot of help some Mumsnetters have been in assisting her to overcome that. Also what was all that talk of dumping the partner about? This man, whatever his faults (and we weren't actually told that much about him), is the father of her children, she can't just chuck him on a whim. Some men are bloody hopeless but if you've got children you've got to do everything you can to make it work.

There is a really good website you can go on to work out what benefits you are entitled, including tax credit if you work, at www.turn2us.org.uk/

Out of interest, I checked it to see how much money I'd be entitled to, working as I do part-time, if me and DP split up - I would be an astonishing £13,000 a year better off.

"I could be forced into a full time job and miss out on time with my dd"

Welcome to my world

It's quite a good one though, on balance. I get to be financially independent, don't need to rely on anyone else to support me, be a good working role model for the DCs, and also ensure that the time spent with them is time truly valued.

It'll be fine. You honestly cannot go through your life without doing a scrap of work.

snap out of your me me and precious moments with kids haze and take adult parental responsibilities seriously

1. getting a job,and any job to begin with,not some whimsy has to suit everyone of your exacting demands

2.your dh doesnt work so you are not constrained by childcare so you should work ft

1. your attitude sucks and you have a huge sense of entitlement
2. very few jobs fit completely around kids,that the rub you are paid salary to compensate for your time and expected to make arrangements eg childcare and after school etc

Agree - many kids have no parent staying at home at all and cope fine. If you don't want to seek work then your dp may have to compromise and take whatever is offered. Both of you are capable of working so why should other subsidise a lifestyle choice which you do not have the luxury of affording yourselves It isn't really a case of knowing/choosing what you want to do, needs must for now , then you can look for something different once you have some excperience and dc are older and in school.

and dont buy any of this mums should be at home,precious moments -is scientifically good for kids innit, there is evidence. pull the finger out.and long tern you and your dp need to have a chat about supporting your family and long term plans

Agree with Quattro

Oh, and you are living in some warped reality if you believe you are entitled to both stay at home and other people pay for it

I work because i want to though, so maybe i just don't 'get it'

see the pay sham comments emerging.dont be daft

for the hard of thinking lets make this explicit

sahp is not a job,and does not incur need for salary to pay you to look after your own child . it is a private individual choice that shouldnt attract a wage or be a cost upon state.and how would it be funded or monitored?

lets see sahm,...
sets own tasks,
undertaken in own time scale
working alone and autonomous
no direct supervision of work
no appraisal of abilities,competencies or review
no pressure to adhere to predetermined standard of work
...in fact nothing in common with a job

scottishmummy, you forgot to point out the fragility of linking mothers staying at home vs. a parent staying at home

i, for one, am immensely grateful that my DH doesn't have to miss out on our children's upbringing by being forced into the "sole provider" template of only a couple of generations ago.

And that I'm not forced into being a SAHM simply because I was the one who gave birth. Parenting styles have changed with the evolution in the way modern families' finances work. Trying to remain part of that "dad works fulltime, mum stays at home" setup is swimming against the tide, and out of reach for a significant proportion of modern families (and is one which never worked well for women anyway, despite what authors and right-wing news articles would have you believe).

Yet all this is a moot point when the OP feels that even if her DH won't step up to his "breadwinner" role, she should still be entitled to choose the SAHM role - which a lot of us even with fulltime working husbands cannot choose to do.

Unrealistic sense of entitlement in the OP, and I'm not ashamed to bash her for it. It's women like her that I'm ashamed of. Intrinsic linking of mothers with the upbringing of children is wrong - bad for mums long term, bad for children long term, bad for the child-father bond long term.

get yourselves out to work - benefits should be for for people who NEED them NOT CHOOSE THEM - this is why we are in the shit now

fgr,you make some v good points well made.esp about challenging inherent assumption that childcare is women work,our domain.certainly both my parents worked ft and same for most of my friends. and history of many industries is of female participation and working

Well, at least now I understand how a Tory government got in.

So you are not ashamed to "bash" the OP, frgr? What a lovely attitude. Personally I'm ashamed of women like yourself who are horrible and unkind to other women who they don't know and have never even met.

For the record, my sister-in-law has managed to be an SAHM on a low household income (about £20,000 per annum). It can be done, you just have to be prepared to live a very simple lifestyle.

Also, in the OP's defence I don't think she ever stated the intention to go through life "without doing a scrap of work", Quattrocento.

It seems to me women cannot win whatever they do and unbelievably it's other women who criticise them. I went back to work part-time when my DC was 2 and had loads of grief from my mother-in-law, who thought I was "selfish", "materialistic" and damaging my DC's psychological health (actually I just wanted us to be able to pay the rent). But if I hadn't gone back to work I guess people on here would have told me I'm lazy, have an inflated sense of entitlement and should pull my finger out...

2 adults capable of ft work,neither of them fancy it.hell that's bound to attract comment

no one has an inherent automatic right to remain at unwaged at home and expect the state to pick up the tab.and just because op is female paret doesnt mean she deoent need to seek work.plenty other female parents work.

leicestershiregirl

1. I didn't vote Tory. I never have, never will.

1. Just because the OP is a fellow woman doesn't make her immune to critisism for feeling she's being hard done by in a household where no one wants to work with 2 able bodied parents. Having a vagina doesn't entitle you to more or less IMHO. Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

1. Good on your SIL. No, not sarcasm, I really mean it. If she has managed to be a SAHM on a low income, that's fab, and I wish I could have done the same long term (i was only able to for a few years due to house prices and basically my DH having to move jobs). As long as she has her pension and NI contributions sorted, of course - I'm not a fan of SAHPs leaving themselves up shit creek re: financial insecurity - but I'll assume she's got a sensible head on her shoulders.

1. Women can win - they can choose husbands who fulfil their side of the parenting duty. If the OP has a husband who won't work or help her with the kids when she works outside the home, that's not women bashing women. That's women bashing women for choosing feckless partners whilst attacking the government for not providing for them. These women, like the OP, should be attacking their own partners for not shouldering the work burden (outside the home or inside the home, or a mix - whatever).

1. Why did your MIL feel it appropriate to attack you for going back to work? Did she attack her son for abandoning his children for his work? If no - does that not stink of hypocrisy to you? It's the women who fundamentally link "housework/children = for women" and "professions = for men" that we should be attacking.

1. "I'm lazy, have an inflated sense of entitlement and should pull my finger out" - only if you refuse to work, your DH doesn't work, and you moan about the fact that the government won't pay your bills. Cry me a river in that case. Otherwise, you have my 100% support to stay at home. If you and your DH are footing the bill, it's no business of mine how you choose to fund it (him working in a high pay job, savings, don't care, it's all good).

In essence, leicestershiregirl, your situation is not the OP's situation, and it's simplistic to pretend they are.

Got no problem with one parent wanting to stay at home, one working, if that's your choice.

DO have a problem with one parent being a SAHP, and one working part time in order not to miss out.

Especially where there are loads of people out there working in FT jobs around childcare. I know quite a few people like this - bloke works in the day, woman works evenings or nights. I am sure that they wouldn't choose this as an optimum lifestyle. However they do it because they know that, ideally, you work to earn money to fund your lifestyle.

actually i've just realised why it is that threads like this irritate me so much. a bit of an eye opener.

it's because we all (surely?) demand to be treated well in the world, somewhat similar to our DHs. equal pay, ideally protected maternity rights, and so forth. but despite that, the significant majority of women, even on MN, place MotherHood on a pedestal higher than that of FatherHood, suggesting that it's more Worthy and Valued (yet undervalued, socially) than the world of work.

It's that double standard that I find outrageous.

I think I'm going to have to start a thread on the Feminist section based on this thread's thoughts.

thenorthwitch - with all due respect, how in the world did you happen upon a thread that has been inactive since mid-Feb, and why did you decide to revive it? Clearly, the OP is long gone and doesn't intend to return to the thread.

Things must be very slow 'round your house on a Sunday evening......

fgr - fantastic posts