I"m a nanny need help with issues regarding pay, tax, and tribunals

[nannyt24]

Hi I am a full time nanny and have some issues with my employer that I don't think are going to be resolved with them. Firstly I started in may 2010 and it has been a nightmare with sorting out my tax which they still haven't done, and pay has been an issue on several accounts where they say there tax credits haven't come through and they can't pay me ontime which has often left me in debt and rent arrears. Furthermore I am now 13 weeks pregnant, I let them know when I was 8 weeks pregnant and they were fine with that and stated they would get my tax sorted so I could get my smp leave. On 24th jan they gave me 8 weeks notice to basically void off this current contract of 40 hrs a week to 20 hours a week as they want there kids in nursery as it would be good for them. She stated I could either do the hours after the 8 weeks notice or leave, obviously I want full time hours so I am more than likely going to have to leave. First question, is this ik for her to do this or is it unfair dismissal. Secondly I have been having a bad pregnancy and have often felt extremely sick, very very weak and hot and at one point unable to move so could hardly come into work, let alone drive there and look after two small children and school drop off for 7 year old. Also I had a uti infection in which I was in the hospital for with suspected case of eptopic pregnancy due to my excruciating pain that lasted 3 days so I couldn't come into work. I have also called in sick a couple of days in the morning as my problems only arose in the morning when I awoke where I was again weak, couldn't move and had difficulty breathing. Now I had a scan the monday just gone which was all well so requested that off (which I don't think she thinks she has to pay for) I stated I could come in after the scan but she sed don't worry iv arranged for my dad to have them so you don't need to come in. (Now I am contracted for those hours) so should be paid as I was able and willing to work as I stated to her. Also yesturday called in sick, admitedly a bit late but I was very very ill. Tonite I get a phonecall saying she was very 'pissed off' I was off again and the late notice, I apologised and stated my pregnancy is bad and I can only let her know when I'm ill, 'when I am ill' if it comes in the morning I cannot predict it and she expects me to - I know she has to arrange childcare but she's basically discriminating on me being pregnant and ill saying she needs someone reliable and she can't have me ringing in sick in morning. I stated I would try my hardest but I can't exactly afford to lose money either and I am not doing it on purpose. Anyway she's saying that 2moro on my working day that she's made arrangements as I didn't let her know tonight if I was coming in or not. I stated right but I am willing and able to work so you still have to pay me, she said no because I need you to take tommorow off to think about things, your job, make a list of how we can help you in anyway etc. I then again said but you have to pay me as I am able to work and its my normal working hours. After going around in circles I didn't agree to not be paid but she doesn't want me in tommorow, but she's has arranged a meeting after work with me to go through some issues. I am going to bring up, you have to pay for my antenatal appointment and the rest of that day as you didn't want me in when I was fully capable of working, and tommorow the same. Sorry to rant but now to my question, where do I stand if she refuses to pay for those days, what should I claim for in tribunal? Also as she hasn't paid my tax etc I have no payslips so no proof of whether she has paid me or not as she pays cash, BUT I will be video recording the whole meeting in secret before u go into the house to prove if she refuses. She also hasn't even given me my notice in writing so I'm worried she may lie and say iv already left. She may settle and pay me before it gets to any sort of court as she will be getting herself into a hell of a lot more trouble than 2 days pay is worth, 9 months tax avoidance, and discriminating regards to me being pregnant and ill. Please can you give me advice whether you agree with me, where I stand, and what to do. Thanks so much for reading.

By the way I do have a proper employment contract stating my hours requirements and everything holiday, sick pay etc so this I do have as proof.

By the way I do have a proper employment contract stating my hours requirements and everything holiday, sick pay etc so this I do have as proof.

a few points - but i am not a lawyer so don't take any of this as gospel.

1. I think she does have the right to change her childcare arrangements to use a nursery and this is not unfair dismissal.

1. She is obliged to give you time off for ante natal appointments - don't know if she's obliged to give you paid time off though - someone who knows more than me will be able to answer that.

1. She is not obliged to give you sick pay unless it is in your contract and tbh I'd be surprised if it was - very few nanny contracts do.

1. The fact she has not given you payslips doesn't mean she hasn't paid your tax - but you should definately get her to confirm the situation and if she hasn't, then to put that right.

1. I think secretly recording any conversation is a bad idea. Any evidence you gain would not be admissable and it puts you in a very bad light.

1. I suspect this employment relationship is not salvageable so you should work out how best to leave it. She has already given you notice - are you realistically going to be well enough to work it? If not, can your doctor sign you off sick so that at least you get SSP?

What Wobble says on the legal side.

From her point of view I think if my nanny had taken 6 (?) days off sick in the last 5 weeks, as well as time off for antenatel appointments, I would also find my patience wearing thin (and I would be having a VERY hard time justifying it to my own bosses). It may be that you are having a very very difficult PG, but it is still making her own life very difficult to manage. Yes, it would be lovely if she could be sympathetic to the troubles you are having, but I don't see you as being in return sympathetic to the troubles that she must be having in finding replacement cover at short notice.

All of that however is by the by, and she still has to treat you fairly. TBH I have absolutely no idea how it works when someone is required for a whole day and makes themselves available only for part of it. I imagine that you are in your rights to claim a full day, but whenever my nanny has taken time off I can usually only arrange cover for whole days, not half days, so I would end up paying double in such circs. If it was me in this situation then I would be insisting that my nanny takes the half day after a scan as paid vacation, but I do have a contract that entitles me to dictate the vacation of my nanny for half of her entitlement - may not be the same in your case. If she does have such a clause in the contract she is perfectly in her rights to tell you not to come in so long as she is paying you as vacation entitlement.

You have absolutely no idea if she has been avoiding tax. I have paid my own nannys' tax like clockwork but she wouldn't know that - and giving her a wage slip showing the deductions would not prove it had been paid anyway - it is just a slip of paper.

To be honest your post is a little self-centred and you have accused her of all sorts, whereas although she has very much overstepped the mark in letting you know how frustrated she is with having to deal with your PG, from what I can tell she has not yet been shown to have done anything wrong - or am I reading it wrong? Has she refused to pay you for your scan time? Has she admitted she is not paying your tax? Has she told you she will not pay you for the times she has said she doesn't want you?

If not, then you are jumping to conclusions and need to see what she says when you meet her regarding all of this.

Recording someone without their permission is not admissable as evidence, and you could in fact be sued by her. If I found out that a nanny had done that to me then I would dismiss them on the spot for breach of trust (and I would be happy to go to a tribunal to defend such a sacking)

FWIW I don't know the ins and outs of this but the toxicity of the relationship here suggests to me that a dignified (and properly conducted) exit is best for all concerned

BTW - I'm not saying that she isn't the employer from hell. She shouldn't be paying you late, and she shouldn't be giving you a had time about taking time off ill. All I'm saying is that there is a long leap to get from that behaviour to a clear-cut case for discrimination and tax avoidance.

Hi guys thanks for your responses. I can confirm that she hasn't paid my tax from the beginning as they were asking me how they do it and I stated how and pointed them In the right direction. On many occasions I have stated you need to sort my tax out as I am not entitled to my ssp, redudancy if ever needed and cannot claim maternity pay without you doing so, they are both young (no excuse) as they stated they would sort this out. I get 300 net a week and they should be paying tax ontop and issuing payslips. When I keep mentioning it to her she says the partner is supposed to be sorting it and he hasn't got round to it yet, and when I go to him he apologises and states ill get it sorted asap I ask each month and they state to me that they still haven't done it yet. I always complain and say well I really need you to sort it asap please and they always come with excuses, they haven't even registered as employers yet as they have still got the pack sitting upstairs In the study, I keep saying you need to rergister and also with paye and they keep fobbing me off and saying they will do it next month and then not doing it. I think they are trying to avoid doing it so by the time I leave anyway they will think they have got away with it. They are useless, I am pregnant and they new this from the start, there front door was broken so for 2 months I have been having to go down in their cellar bit (where by the way she had rats down there) and climbing through the window with the kids, lifting them in the window and then me climbing through it, as they can't afford to get the door fixed yet, she's just got it fixed this week 'finally' after me going on that door needs to be fixed. Pay has been late on several occasions and short, they get 375 tax creds a week and I only do 300 a week so they are pocketing 75 a week off my ofsted registration and yet they fail to pay me. The dad just gives the money to the mum and I state oh its 40 quid short sometimes more, and she will say oh its down to her partner she's not getting involved, she signed the contract she's my employer to but coz he gets the tax credits in his bank he spends the money. One day I really had a go and left a voicemail saying you have to pay me ontime espcially as you are getting more tax credits than you should be, there should be no issue. I get a message saying I needed the money for a bill, or petrol to be able to get to work and pay you - (is this my problem) they make me so angry. I know how much tax creds they get and know they haven't changed it as she's told me this, as me and the mum were quite friendly and supposed to have become friends but now I don't want to know- she actually showed me her award letter and we were discussing it as friends so I know she is still getting that as she has said.. In her words 'my partner gets 375 a week tax credits for you, he obviously only gives you 300 of that and I don't see no money from him' hmmm weird relationship but like I said, this isn't my problem I expect to be paid ontime and the right amount each week. So all this is proof and she doesn't deny it she blames her partner. Strange. In regards to my antenatal appointment and my day off today that she forced me to have even though I said to her last night I wanted and was able to come in and stated she still had to pay me - she has said that well no I can't really pay for that as you didn't let me know! I said but I haven't called in sick and in the contract it states to call an hour before work if possible under the circumstances, she just tutted and said well no you know I'm not gona pay as you didn't let me know what's going on for tommorow, I stated legally you cannot tell me to not work on my contracted hours. She just kept avoiding answering and said look have tommorow off come for a meeting at half 4 tommorow I know your not happy with having it off but iv made other arrangements now. I ended it with ok but we will need to discuss this as it is legal for you to pay if you don't want me for contracted hours so we will talk tommorow. I get a txt today that her daughter yet again after the 4th incident all with the 1 year old now 2 year old daughter they neglect to watch and avoid dangerous situations, incident 1. Open window (up high) was left open (a thatched window) and window falls on arm fractures it ends up in hospital. 2. Blisters on bum where left in soiled nappy, happened on several occasions, playschool states its disgraceful, 3. Finger trapped in door on two occasions, nail completely come off one time, chipped badly the other, 4. On several occasions scratches and bruises on eye, neck, hands which she let's her 3 year old boy do to her, he bangs her head on brick wall, and she does nothing about it and doesn't see this as a serious problem as one day he tried to push her down the stairs and I have noted my concerns with this and way to address the situation, I have stated he doesn't dream of doing this with me its only you, so the issue is he's walking all over you. She leaves her children to run riot with no supervision all day. She said today the meetings cancelled as daughter has had accident banged her head and she's up doctors. This employer has now asked me to do more work also all of the childrens ironing, washing and rooms tidy clothes put away on daily basis instead of taking them out in the day, even though we agreed in advance we would all chip in and help with it and she didn't expect me to do all of it and it does state this in the contract, now I am pregnant seems she's asking me to do more, got a feeling she's trying to drive me to leave. I will bring up all these issues in a meeting we have rearranged for tommorow, that's why I need your guys advice first. I have been a great employee, patient, not complaining much, not put non payment to tribunal court when she didn't pay me for 2 month when I get weekly pay, iv been there for her kids, helped clean the kitchen for her when asked and this not in my duties as it was all junk from her and her partner dumped in and around sink, I have been very sympathtic with her last night when she stated how my sick days were affecting her job, I said I was deeply sorry and understood but there was nothing I could do about random sickness occurences. I even stated to her that I am reliable on other parts as on my day off I get a phonecall from the playskool,n noones turned up to pick her son up, she could hav got in trouble as the lady was threatening that she would have to call social servuices as noones turned up and they are not answering there phone. Now as my mum lives down the road from the playskool she is a childminder and the children know her very well, so I asked her if she could pick him up whilst I made my way to hers as I was other side of town and traffic was horrendus at this time, I went out of my way to save her from getting in big trouble. And guess what- the dad fell asleep!! Useless!! I stated I will try my hardest to come in and keep healthy, and apologised as much as I possibly could. Now you know a bit more details about them, what do you think? Thanks

When I say they are young, its not really too young she's 25 and he's 29. I am younger than them (24) and I seem to know a lot, iv even had to print out employment requirements, pay cuts and changing hours without notice which they hav tried to do by sayin don't need you in this day. Etc. Thanks

Nannyt24, I think you might get more help and advice if you split your posts into paragraphs. It's almost impossible to follow what you are writing, particularly as I left my glasses at work!

Ah ok thanks, I'm not sure how I edit it so I can do so. I cannot see a edit button. Thanks

Um....lots more detail, yes, but you still do not have a single thing to out forward as evidence in a tribunal.

If they are not paying your tax then you can simply call up the HMRC helpline and tell them.

Everything else sounds like shit, but that's the conditions they operate in and there is nothing that creates a case of discriminatory or unfair treatment.

Cellar door irrelevant IMO - you considered it safe enough to use at the time and it is fixed now. In my house we've had flooded sewers before and my nanny had to walk across a plank over the path to avoid it for a couple of weeks. Not nice but it happens. My very professional office at work has a rat infestation at the mo.

Their parenting skills irrelevant to your role. You saving them from trouble from nursery was very nice of you and responsible, but that is by the by. You weren't forced to do it, so don't do it again if you resent this.

Cleaning all the children's clothes and rooms is part of normal nanny duties, even with three kids, and you are doing 40 hours so it should be doable. Likewise if the non-kids stuff is wiping down the sides and a bit of washing up of their dishes when you arrive in the morning then although it isn't part of their duties, it is fairly standard for a nanny to help clean it up.

They sound like scatty people with poor parenting skills who do not know how to treat you professionally, and most nannies would walk out on such a situation . But you still do not seem to have any evidence that would create a case for anything in a tribunal. They do need to pay you for the time they told you not to come in, but apart from that it is up to you to decide if you want to continue working for them or not. If you can move on, then do, but I don't think you have any claims against them.

With regard to tax, they will be in a lot of trouble with HMRC, but again it shouldn't be your problem; report them if you wish to protect your rights to SMP, but the tax issue is otherwise between them and HMRC, it's not a battle for you to fight (so long as you get your own position ring-fenced. TBH if they are that scatty with money then there is no way they will be able to pay the tax on £300 a week over 9 months in a hurry, so they will probably not move until you report them anyway). You can't take them to a tribunal because they are cheating the taxman.

Ok thanks for your help, I wasn't getting through the cellar door it was a window and I didn't consider it safe as I told her, and I am pregnant even her mother in law said this is a health and safety issue and you cannot be climbing through a window especially pregnant at work. I think I have given her enough chances to sort the tax issue so I will report that, as it does and will affect my smp, and will look like I haven't been working or paying tax for 9 months, I just don't want that. I understand that its my duty to do general tidying up in kitchen which I always do, but I'm talking about coming back to work on a monday from a weekend and their rooms are a bombshell and the kitchen- my god I'm talking plates piling over pots, pans, dirty unclean table for kids ready for breakfast, a mess! and she expects me to sort this from her shit from the weekend, very unfair and certainly not my job description. In regards to nannies doing all the childrens stuff I normally do in other positions, but in this particular position we agreed that it would not be the nannies job to do all of the childrens stuff, but to all help out together with the washing and ironing, and it states that clearly in my contract. It hasn't been a problem for 9 months of being with them, so I'm curious as to why all of a sudden she's asked me to do all of there stuff. So isn't there something where you can't ask of more workload for a pregnant person? I know I should just leave, I have until 21st of march but where do I stand on my accrued holidays if I leave, I worked out I have 8.8 day accrued holiday by 21st march, if the doctor does sign me off sick for the remainder of this time does she have to pay me the accrued holiday owed up until 21st march (when I leave) or from the date that I start my sick leave from? Iv got a feeling she will refuse to even pay any of it. I have a four day holiday booked 21st feb for the half term but of course I will want what I am owed for the remainder of that time, as the same in any other employment.

I'm not saying that it isn't a shite situation. What I am saying is that you have no case to take to a tribunal.

Why should the doctor sign you off sick? Are you now saying that you are too ill to work or that you want to go off sick because you are not happy with being asked to clean the kids things and do all their laundry?

If you do get signed off sick you will probably only get SSP for the first three days then no pay anyway - that would be normal for a nanny.

OP please ring the ACAS helpline. I can not read your posts at all, as the formatting comes across as one long sentence.

No what I am saying to get signed off as I keep becoming ill and she's not happy with it and said it can't keep happending but I feel ill all the time. Nothing to wiv kids clothes etc, what I want to know if she refuses to pay me for antenatal appointment, as well as the day that she told me not to come in that was both my normal workings hours, (when I was willing and able to work) and told her this - can this be taken to a tribunal. I read on direct.gov website that if u are willing and able to work, and that antenatal care is paid time off.. Can u confirm this will stand up in a tribunal please as she is now refusing to pay for this? Also if she still refuses by monday, if I say I am not coming into work until I am paid my full amount, does she still have to pay me for the time when I do not come in due to the non payment, or do you reccomend going in but tell her I have to take matters further? Thanks

No what I am saying to get signed off as I keep becoming ill and she's not happy with it and said it can't keep happending but I feel ill all the time. Nothing to wiv kids clothes etc, what I want to know if she refuses to pay me for antenatal appointment, as well as the day that she told me not to come in that was both my normal workings hours, (when I was willing and able to work) and told her this - can this be taken to a tribunal. I read on direct.gov website that if u are willing and able to work, and that antenatal care is paid time off.. Can u confirm this will stand up in a tribunal please as she is now refusing to pay for this? Also if she still refuses by monday, if I say I am not coming into work until I am paid my full amount, does she still have to pay me for the time when I do not come in due to the non payment, or do you reccomend going in but tell her I have to take matters further? Thanks

How can you be saying you are thinking that maybe you should be signed off sick as you are too unwell to work (perfectly valid if this is true and Gp agrees to
Sign you off) and on the other hand that you want to go to a tribunal re pay as you were willing to work but were prevented? I am no expert but if this is valid grounds for going to a tribunal it doesn't sound like you have the strongest case.

Also whilst not defending this less than ideal position (ESP re tax) do you want to continue working as a nanny? It may be better to call it quits now, not go through any more hassle when you are pregnant and focus on trying to Get something better . Its easier to explain gap on cv/no ref if there is no legal action as people may be put off when hiring someone in a personal capacity if they are litigious (particularly if there is also a record of a lot of sick days which causes issues as an employer as someone else
Has said). Whilst this may not be fair it is probably worth pointing out that it will come up in future job hunts.

It won't come up as I am not using this ridiculous family as a reference. As they are not professional. Anyway in regards to getting signed off sick I was curious as to what I should do if I kept being ill.. The fact is, I only called in sick for 1 day and she told me not to come in the next day as I didn't let her know if I was coming in. In my contract it says to call in an hour before work if sick (not that I was for the day in question) so why shouldn't she pay me, I can confirm iv spoken to ACAS and they have confirmed you hadn't called in sick so she can't just make assumptions so she has to pay you for that and it will be class as loss of earnings, not sure if u guys have been reading it properly. But thanks anyway. Simple fact is if u tell me u don't want me to come in when I persisted I wanted to and able to why the hell shouldn't she pay me!!

OP you need to call the legal advice line of your nanny insurance company. MN is a wonderful resource but this is partly why you have insurance! They will advice you on the best way to proceed with a tribunal, if that's what you want, and the non-payment of tax.

You are aware that your DB may not be pocketing the £75 a week but keeping it to pay tax? They are perfectly entitled to claim more than your net wage as you cost them significantly more gross.

If you're not using them as a reference what are you going to put on your CV? You have no trace of employment with them and that's going to leave a big gap.

You need to talk to your insurer. It's their job to sort it out.