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Trouble with Last Employer RE Money taken from paycheck + Other issues.

7 replies

PorphyPixie · 30/01/2011 23:51

Right, I'm going to give you the full story (as much as I can remember!) and want to know if something can be done. Not only that, but I'm going to CAB tomorrow about it so hope that it makes sense.

Our (my partner and I's) last job was in a garden centre (with accom provided for weekly fee of £32.50). It was an okay job actually, it wasn't great, but it was interesting and I'm quite reluctant to take things further as we wanted to go back next xmas, but I don't think that we have a choice. We have two separate issues here.

When we first arrived we were told that they were refurbishing. It was fine, mainly the kitchen needed a paint and replastering (a few cracks and a large cracked area where something had hit the wall) and it also needed skirting boards in the kitchen. It was an old house with normal wear and tear in other words and in need of some love. Me and my partner were actually asked to clean the house (during work hours) shortly after we arrived as it was a bit of a mess. A couple were fired after we arrived and they were charged a lot for a cleaning service of their room. Apparently this was the first ever time this had been done. At this point it was also made clear that we would not be allowed visitors to the house what-so-ever due to previous parties.

We lived in one of the two chalets/bedrooms in the garden (there were 7 bedrooms in total, 2 'chalets' and 5 bedrooms inside of the house, each housed a couple and four bathrooms, two of these were for exclusive use of the two couples outside, so at some points there were 10 of us to two bathrooms) which again, was fine at first. The nature of our work and living arrangements worked well up until September. In September we took a room inside when another couple left. The only available room before that was a room with mold in it, which we were hesistant to take, understandably. There was also mold growing in the downstairs bathroom of this house on the ceiling, which was quite high and we had been told not to touch it (just in case), yet nobody ever came to look at it.

In September me and my partner were moved to the Christmas department, which was fine again. There was also a meeting with the owner of the centre who said that she'd arranged for the heating to go on from 4-8am and 6-10pm daily in the house and that we had to give back any greenhouse heaters that were left in the house from the previous year when the heating broke down. We did this as asked.

However at the beginning of November, we were moved to the grotto team. As it wasn't busy early on, only two people were in the grotto at one point. This grotto was outside but under a shelter, however this shelter was inadequate. One side of the selther was completely open. Above us we had two gaping gaps in the roof where the poly tunnels met which allowed the weather and wind to come through. If it rained, we got wet. When it snowed, we were very cold! Unfortunately for me, I was one of the two people outside full time, when I asked for a reprieve I was told that it'd be fine, but nothing ever came of it, the same happened to the other full timer in the grotto. (To add, there were also three reindeer kept in a roughly 15ft by 8ft pen near us for from Nov 5th to Dec 24th and during this time they were not let out once, and it wasn't uncommon for the staff looking after them to forget to feed them! This may out me but I cannot seem to care anymore!)

Meanwhile the rest of the Christmas team (mostly other seasonals) worked the stock. The boys commonly worked in the warehouse, finding stock to bring out. Some of this stock was from the year before and had been left in containers for the year, most of that was moldy. We were all made to work through this stock to find stock that we could put out still. We also had to rewrap grotto presents from the year before to give out to children in the grotto. Many of these were also moldy.

Back to the grotto. The grotto itself was in a Warehouse, the only area with heating was Santa's room itself and the booking booth (where most of us worked) was the outside bit. When it started to get really cold we were given a little greenhouse heater to keep us warm. When we complained we were told to put on more layers. They would not provide or even semi-pay for these layers even though they sold them in the shop and many of us did not own thermals of any kind and had to go buy some in order to get enough layers on to stay slightly warm.

We were expecting the cold however (even though it was colder than expected!) but doubled with the fact that the heating in the house was inadequate, we spent most of our days freezing cold, and it was even too cold to shower at some points. It certainly wasn't warm enough anywhere in the house to dry our wet clothes after washing them! The heater in our lounge didn't work, the heating in the kitchen was useless due to a draughty conservatory attached to it, the bathrooms had the same problem of being draughty and our bedroom heaters were useless, mine didn't work at all during my time there. We were lucky that one couple, who left when it started to get very cold, stashed a greenhouse heater, so we kept that on in the living room so that at least one room would be warm in the evenings!

As you can imagine, most of us ended up ill by Christmas, and we all ended up having time off in the week before Christmas. Personally I got to the point where I just could not warm up. I was wearing three layers to bed for most of December and at least three layers whilst working and at home and yet it got to the point where I couldn't warm up so I took a day off and spent it sat in front of our little greenhouse heater on full blast in an attempt to get warm! My colleagues were in a worse state than me though and had varying health problems.

We were all made redundant just before Christmas and would be leaving by the 5th of Jan, last day being the 2nd. On the 26th of Jan our heating went off completely and didn't come back on before we left.

The second thing is a charge that has been made to each person of £100 for 'cleaning costs' which is what we've been told by the HR of the place.

Now we suspected that we'd have deductions due to 'parties' that we had in the two weeks leading up to Christmas. At the second some of my housemates were dancing in the kitchen and knocked the cracked wall I mentioned earlier, it then fell out. It was a stupid moment obviously, but it was accidental, and it certainly was not a party as they made it out to be, it was two people from work who needed a place to stay after the Christmas party when their person turned them down last minute, and then the same two popping round to take one of the housemates to the cinema (they ended up staying apparently Hmm). Now, these same two girls were told that, should the weather turn sour, they would have to stay at the staff house so that they could get to work the next day. It's a little hypocritical.

But anyway. A few days before we left the front steps of the house, which had always been wobbly but over Dec had been glued together by ice, fell apart. Quite literally. One of our managers discovered this before any of us did when he stacked it up them whilst we were at work!

So that's two bits of damage we know of, one quick plastering job, which they have on on-site builder full time who told us he could do it, and a normal bit of wear and tear on the two steps leading up to the house.

We left the house in a good condition, cleaner than it was when we all arrived! And they charged us £100 each for cleaning bills. Times that by the four couples that they undoubtably charged and it's £800. Then add the two couples they should also charge but probably didn't and it's theoretically £1200 to clean a house. That is what we're angry about. And the fact that we all specifically asked before we left and were always told that it probably wouldn't happen, or that it shouldn't, and yet we have £100 each taken off of our paychecks.

Can we do anything about either the conditions of work (cold/mold) or the money?!

We also had a couple round on Christmas day, they were fired three days before Christmas with no where to go, no family in the country, etc. We believe that the heating was turned off because of this as the bosses certainly knew that they'd come round and were quite vindictive with us all towards the end.

Sorry for it being so long! I didn't want to miss anythign and/or try make it look like we're angels. We're not, we're young human beings, we do silly things and have accidents sometimes, but we aren't stupid enough to believe it takes over a grand to clean a bog-standard house!

OP posts:
StillSquiffy · 31/01/2011 11:02

Re: the cold. No, nothing you can do.

Re: the damage: yes they are probably taking the mickey, but at £100 per person they know it would cost more than that for you to chase through the courts and they have evidence that you did damage the wall, whilst having a forbidden party, and that you also broke the rules by having other people staying. Fact that the other people had nowhere else to stay is irrelevant. You agreed to rules and then disregarded them. So if they claim you left everything a tip then you would struggle to convince courts otherwise given that you did everything else they told you not to do.

They sound like really crap employers, and vindictive, but they know they can get away with it. Nothing you can do except live and learn.

PorphyPixie · 31/01/2011 11:37

I thought they'd be able to get away with it. That makes me so fucking angry. They put fourteen of us in one house, leave the heating off on purpose through the coldest weather, make us work in miserable conditions which we did so happiuly and they take twenty hours worth of our wages to cover the cost of 'cleaning'.

What if these rules weren't in written form? I personally had nothing to do with people staying over but I wouldn't stuff it off onto the person who did as it isn't fair for her to take the blame.

One of my colleagues requested for receipts of the cleaning costs last Tuesday and nothing was presented to her, just a lot of fumbling on the other end. They've not given us any warning either that they would withold part of our paycheck.

I hope there is at least something we can do. I'd be so tempted to go vindictive otherwise and put them through hell, they violate so many employer laws, animal rights and planning permission laws, etc that it's ridiculous.

Thank you for reading my verbal vomit though! And for responding. I didn't get anywhere with cAB today as they filled their slots rather quickly! Will have to wait until tomorrow now.

OP posts:
PorphyPixie · 31/01/2011 11:39

Also, what if they didn't say it was for the wall damage? They spefically told my colleague it was for cleaning costs only. I checked our contracts this morning and they state that they can only withold money from us for the state our rooms are left in, nothing else.

OP posts:
StickyProblem · 31/01/2011 13:01

Hi Pixie

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on what you can/can't claim, this is just my opinion. The CAB will be able to clarify.

They specifically told you there was a rule to not have people staying over. Someone broke this. "it was also made clear that we would not be allowed visitors to the house what-so-ever". When an employer emphatically states a rule, it's either because they want you to keep it, or because they want you to break it so they can screw you. Either way, breaking it is not going to end well.

There is a complete difference between the fact that you/your colleagues LET someone stay over, and HR TELLING them to stay over. One is your fault, the other is the company's decision.

You should have complained at the time about the cold and the lack of heating. They won't give you any kudos now for saying "well we suffered through the cold" - that's not how it works. If you have a problem, complain at the time, and keep complaining. When the workplace got really cold, you should have complained then, found out the legal minimum people can work in without having special gear provided by the employer, and told them that. By buying your own thermals (and giving them more business!!!!) and just getting on with it, in effect you agreed to the conditions.

If they are breaking other laws/regulations such as planning and animal welfare, report them to the appropriate body. This won't make any difference to your own situation regarding employment but it might give you some satisfaction. The fact that they forgot to feed the reindeer is nothing you can do anything about now, because no-one can go and inspect the reindeer as they are no longer there. (same as the cold - this is why you need complain at the time.)

Frankly, I find it a bit off that because they took £100 off you, you are all fired up about animal welfare, when at the time the animals were being neglected you weren't too bothered. (I apologise if I have misinterpreted this.) You should have spoken to a manager at the time and made sure the animals were fed, and if they hadn't done this you should have reported them.

I completely understand that when you have a live-in job it's not as simple as just "tell the manager", "complain about the conditions", "report them to animal welfare" etc, because all your eggs are in that employer's basket. However, that's what you should have done if you genuinely wanted conditions to improve.

I get the feeling that at the time, you knew the employer were dodgy, but you had loads of colleagues there and it was a bit of a laugh. Now it's gone sour you are really fed up, and I can understand this. Unfortunately, they know what they are doing and what they can get. I'm afraid that to me they sound like past masters at exploiting people and staying just close enough to the law to get away with it. You have answered your own question with your last post about the wall - they have made a deduction that is officially for "cleaning" because your contract allows them to do that.

Why were you all made redundant? Is the garden centre still open?

PorphyPixie · 31/01/2011 18:16

I understand about the person staying over, they knew it would be broken sometime yet they still haven't given that as a reason, they did take each couple aside about it when they were making us redundant but that's it, issue was over with as soon as it started (both occasions were within a week of the other).

We complained about the cold every single day, to our manager, to the head of centre and nothing was done. We also complained about no heating in the house and the same happened again, nothing was done. We made a point of telling them we were unfit for work because of it and it was still unsolved. They didn't give a toss because they knew they were making us redundant, they just didn't want to do it until a few days before Christmas because they needed us to be elves.

The only time they took me out of the grotto was when our Santa was throwing up and yet they asked him to stay. I got annoyed about that so they sent me home to change and come back to work inside, saying that I shouldn't butt in in their business and our Santa's business, especially when I mentioned certain regs regarding people who've been sick around babies Hmm

I'm just getting peeved, I won't contact the other bodies, I'm just having a vindictive moment, shouldn't have mentioned it! Biscuit

We did complain about the animals at the time too, asked if we could have a hand in looking after them, asked if we could walk them around after hours if they wouldn't, contacted RSPCA, etc. No change again. The only thing that happened was the council insisted hat they couldn't let anyone touch them through the bars. The poor things were going crazy by the end of it :(

Trust me, we went through every channel we could, spoke to our manager, to other managers, to the HR person, to the woman who owned the centre, nothing happened. They were very much "This person will do something, go to them..." and it never happened, and they knew that we had no option but to carry on working because most of us had nowhere else to go Angry

One of the girls ended up very ill at one point and yet when she had a day off (after us telling her she was not allowed in!) they went round to the house to make sure she was actually ill. We went elsewhere to buy the thermals, weren't going to line their pockets further!

Being honest, the job was great at first, we had a house manager who, if there was a problem, we could go too. We had a good time, mainly just chilling out, very rarely drank or caused trouble. I think that in the last three months we were there there were only three times where we drank and made a mess! It was all cleaned by the end of the next day! We were good tenaants considering we were a bunch of 20-30yos.

I was fed up well before I left, and was so glad to go, I'm just so angry that they've taken this money from us, which is not in the contract. The contract states that the state of our bedrooms is what they will go by when we leave, nothing else. I know that my room was most certainly spotless! I'm mainly angry that they did not give us any prior warning, and now refuse to cough up the recipts of this 'cleaning'. I checked today and they are legally required to warn us that they would be making these reductions.

I have no idea what I want out of this, I've certainly learnt my lesson that they're twats. I knew that anyway, but having people you can't trust in power of your money is terrible. I just want them to know that they cannot treat people like that, but it's unfortunately a trend in that place, with the seasonals and other employees :(

They're still open. We were made redundant because they could. Didn't make enough money over Christmas and our contracts were all 6 month ones. Me and my partner had ours renewed and gave them permission to give us a weeks notice instead of four because otherwise we'd need to give four weeks notice too. The four couples who were 'trouble makers' in their eyes (those of us who got fed up and complained too much) were all made redundant and they kept on two couples who kept their heads down and complained about us.

Thank you for replying. I'm speaking with the others to see what they want to do, speaking to CAB about it tomorrow and damn well wishing I'd quit when the troubles started in November! I made a huge mistake in staying and trusting them to do right by us :(

Thanks again

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 01/02/2011 01:40

AFAIK there is legislation which covers this - something like the 'unlawful deductions from earnings regulations'.

Phone ACAS for advice - they will be able to tell you.

PorphyPixie · 01/02/2011 09:12

Thanks Beryl! I'm off to CAB in a mo but will definatelky call them when I get back!

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