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Original poster

Need help before I meet boss tomorrow please!!

29 replies

ShesEverSoFamous · 03/12/2010 18:09

Hi folks, I really hope someone can come along and put me straight.
As you may have noticed we've had some snow. I live in the the East of Scotland so I've had more than others.
My boss closed the business all week due to the snow. I only work part time so would have only being working Wednesday, Thursday and tomorrow - 18 hours.
I'm wondering what happens with pay?
From what I've heard from my fellow employees we will be given holiday pay for this week, doesn't seem right to me.
I've tried every website relating to employment law and to be honest I don't know what I'm looking for.
I found "If no work is available to you (eg the office has closed and you do not work at home) then your employer cannot dock your pay or require you to take annual leave." On directgov but I'm unsure if this is relevant to Scotland or not?
I received a text from my boss yesterday saying "If I was to open the business on Saturday would you be able to make it in?" I replied saying I would as it's only a ten minute walk. I've had no reply so I'm guessing I'm the only who said yes.
Today I received another text asking if we could meet in town to get my wages for the previous week tomorrow to which I agreed. I've now got another text saying "I can put 20 hours unused holiday pay through for next week if you want, that's what you have left after Christmas hours taken away"
I'm seriously confused, I realise some of this info is completely pointless but I just don't want to leave anything out but I just want to know if I'm entitled to my normal pay or if it will have to be taken as holiday?
Any advice really appreciated, thanks for reading.

OP posts:

LadyLapsang · 03/12/2010 18:22

Is it covered in your contract of employment?

Original poster

ShesEverSoFamous · 03/12/2010 18:26

I've been through it about a hundred times and can't find anything about closures. Only about if I was unable to get into work for whatever reason which isn't the case.

OP posts:

nannynick · 03/12/2010 18:26

Not sure there is an answer... have similar issue over on Childminders/Nannies: Do I pay my nanny if she is not coming in due to snow?

hairyfairylights · 03/12/2010 18:52

Anything in your employers handbook or policies?

I'm pretty sure they can do more or less whatever they like ie: it could be unpaid time off, or it could be enforced holidays.

flowerybeanbag · 03/12/2010 19:07

As it says on directgov, if there was no work available to you, they can't do what they like, they must pay you.

It's all about the fundamentals of an employment relationship - your part of the contract is to show up for work when required and do your job. Their part of the contract is to provide you with a job to do and pay you for it. If they close the office meaning there is no work for you to do, they can't dock your pay.

hairyfairylights · 03/12/2010 19:23

Apologies for misinformation. I'll stick to what I know for sure in future!

Well done flowery :)

flowerybeanbag · 03/12/2010 19:39

If work was available, that's entirely different and you're basically right hairy, but it's the decision to close the office that's key here, when the OP was willing to go in.

fel1x · 03/12/2010 19:44

Are you sure he is talking about the snow days?
I read it as saying that he will meet you tomorrow to pay you what you are owed PLUS you have some holidays left for this year still after you've taken your Xmas hols and would you like him to add the pay for those onto this weeks pay?
No?

Original poster

ShesEverSoFamous · 03/12/2010 20:11

That's what I thought fel1x but I had so many people in my ear I was getting all confused. All of my co-workers were phoning me to find out what was going on for a reason I really do not know.

Thanks flowery I feel much better now, will let you all know how I get on.

Thanks again folks.

OP posts:

Original poster

ShesEverSoFamous · 04/12/2010 16:00

Update.
Hi, as I suspected my boss is refusing to pay.
As the business had no money coming in this week he is convinced he does not had to pay anything out.
I told him of what I found on direct.gov and he says his solicitor says otherwise as it is not in my contract that I would get paid, but surely contracts go both ways?
As you can imagine I am stressing out, wondering how we are going to pay bills etc next week.
I'm unsure of where to go from here, can anybody help?

OP posts:

mumbar · 04/12/2010 16:09

CAB? They must have information on this sort of thing. I do know if you can't get in then theres no pay, but you were not given this chance.

I think there are numbers on the direct.gov website you could ring? Maybe they'll be able to advise you.

frgr · 04/12/2010 17:31

I would print out relevant information from the government website; i would also book an appointment at CAB

just to warn you - it's highly likely your employer will be extremely pissed at you for standing up to him. esp in this climate when they've had no money coming in - but that's just part of running a business - and if you risk standing by while you avoid enforcing your employment rights here, we are only just going into December - what if there are more days at the end of the year or in Jan/Feb where this happens? So you need to get this straight so a precdant is set.

Sorry to point out the above, my DH had a few issues with his old employer re: time off work for childcare issues (a few days illness), his boss got VERY VERY pissy with him, called in HR (who, basically are there to protect the legal position of the company, not work on behalf of DH)... it was very unpleasent but DH's work were totally and utterly in the wrong. Having printed out advice and gotten the advice from our household insurance's legalcover helpline, they backed down. And it meant that when it happened again a few months later DH didn't have the same battle go contend with.

Good luck!

flowerybeanbag · 04/12/2010 18:22

Presumably your contract doesn't say anything about you only being paid if the business can afford it, or anything about the business having the right to refuse you work or reduce your hours or anything like that?

If it doesn't, then docking your pay because you were not allowed in to work will be an unauthorised deduction from wages.

Have a read of this page all about deductions from wages, when it's legal and when it's not.

Has he actually deducted your pay now, or is he just saying he's going to.

Have you checked your house insurance to see if you have legal cover? Although his solicitor is (probably) talking a load of rubbish (if he/she even exists), it would be a good idea for someone to go through your contract just to double check. If you have legal cover I imagine that would be part of it.

hairyfairylights · 05/12/2010 16:39

frgr of course hr employees are there to support the company, why else would a company employ them?

OP you need to get some proper legal advice I reckon.

But don't be surprised if you become unpopular with your employer if you do!

PinkElephantsOnParade · 05/12/2010 20:15

It seems pretty clear that, as the Op was available for work and willing to come in to work, she should be paid.

Her employer took the decision to close the office, this is not a situation where she could not make it in.

Employers CANNOT just do what they want! They cannot just decide not to pay employees because they don't want to!

PinkElephantsOnParade · 05/12/2010 20:16

Listen to flowery, she has given you all the info you need.

Call him on this, it is outrageous.

frgr · 05/12/2010 21:34

(hairyfairylights, i pointed that out because many employees, for some reason my DH included, assumed the HR employees would know their stuff and mediate between boss and the employee... which they did offer to do, but it became clear (obviously) that they wouldn't make DH's life any easier than they had to... which i'd tried to warn him about... which he shrugged off because he'd always had a good relationship with his work prior to that. So just trying to warn the OP of what can happen if you try and enforce your rights like my DH did that's all :))

VivaLeBeaver · 05/12/2010 21:37

You are right and your employer is wrong. CAB will give advice. However think long and hard, if you stand up to him and there are redundencies down the line will he hold it against you? Shit I know, but losing a week's wages could be better than losing a job.

hairyfairylights · 05/12/2010 22:33

The thing is employers can usually find a way to do what they want eventually. He is out of order on this one, but the op should choose her battles wisely.

hairyfairylights · 05/12/2010 22:35

Hr are not there to mediate. It really puzzles me
why anyone would think they are!

PinkElephantsOnParade · 06/12/2010 00:01

hairy - but HR know when their management's behaviour is going to land the company in the crapper and generally steer them away from this.

Though it does not sound like OPs employer has an HR dept.

hairyfairylights · 06/12/2010 10:24

Absolutely - but negotiating with staff and mediating doesn't figure in their remit. Their job is to advise managers, and ensure that all actions comply with employment law (and sometimes good practice if you ae lucky!).

Mediating is a differnt thing altogether, and it's about compromise. You can't compromise on the law!

flowerybeanbag · 06/12/2010 10:27

I've done plenty of mediating in my time. Yes you can't compromise on the law but only one aspect of HR is sticking to employment law. It's called 'employee relations' for a reason, and maintaining those relations sometimes involves negotiation and mediation.

However if HR are in a mediating role at any time, the employee just needs to remember who pays their salary and therefore whose 'side' they are on if there is a dispute.

PinkElephantsOnParade · 06/12/2010 10:31

Yes I can imagine a HR dept does lots of mediating as it is cheaper than fighting a legal action!

I would think one of their most important roles is to stop loose cannon managers costing the company a fortune in damages!

Though you always need to remember that they will act in the interests of the company first and foremost.

Though the interests of the company may well not be the interests of the manager if he/she is acting out of order.

I have known cases where managers who have been harassing staff unlawfully have been sacked as the company knows they would land them in a lot of trouble.

flowerybeanbag · 06/12/2010 10:33

Indeed, loose cannon managers have been the bane of my professional life

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