Working part-time, commitment to the job and the lack of "sisterhood"...

[emkana]

When I had dd1 four years ago I had the intention to go back to work (teaching) after one year. When the year was over I didn't want to go back full-time. The school offered me part-time, but it was so many lessons that I still would have been in school every day from eight till four. I asked for less, but the head of department let it be known to me then through a third party that obviously I wasn't committed enough to the job and should consider resigning - which I did. The head of department was a woman herself, with children, which I found very disappointing - I thought she would be more understanding. I was telling this story to a mum at the school gates today, and she said that she totally agreed with my former boss, that you couldn't work part-time and do your job properly.
What hope is there for things ever changing when even women aren't more supportive of a change in the work-life balance? I really find that quite shocking... please tell me that you all feel differently... don't you?

At my dd's previous school there were 2 part-time form teachers (with young children) who did mornings only. The afternoons were taken up with subjects that had specialist teachers like PE, music, French so it was a waste for the (small private) school to pay those two teachers to be full-time in those circumstances. They were both excellent teachers.

I agree, it's depressing that part-time work is viewed like this. And will continue to be so until more men start doing part-time work themsleves. At my daughter's infant school, however, 2 teachers did job-share for one class. Seemed to work.

I must be really lucky then because I'm doing 3 days a week at my school and I'm also still deputy head. When I went on maternity leave my headteacher told me that he would rather I went back part time, than lose me completely.

A fantastic attitude I think. He recognises the investment he has made in training all the staff and wants to keep us on if he possibly can. Having said that, he certainly expects part time staff to pull their weight and I sometimes find the amount of work quite daunting. There doesn't seem to be any less work than when I was full time!

I don't agree at all that you can't work part time and do your job properly. Although my priorities have definitely changed since having my daughter, when I am at school I work incredibly hard and am as committed as any of my full time colleagues.

You can work part time and do your job properly imo but it needs huge committment and effort from the company and people involved in order to work imo. And we are currently stuck with a ridiculous work model - i.e. 9am - 5.30pm, 5 days a week, which does discriminate against women (because the majority of carers of children are women) who have small children and want to work part time/job share. So I agree with you, part time shouldn't = dead end job and work/life balance should be taken seriously.

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Tbh, I think there are some jobs that are very difficult to do properly part-time. I also think that there are some jobs which are very difficult to do properly full-time, unless you're prepared to do more than the standard 9 to 5 hours. I'm not saying that this should be the case or that it's right, but the way many jobs, especially professional and managerial jobs, are organised it is almost impossible to do them unless you are prepared to put in long hours.
This is the case with my job. I work part-time in that I take every Wednesday off, but I regularly find that I have to take work home and do it in the evenings just to even do a passable job. Even then I feel that I am constantly being judged badly compared to my full-time colleagues, some of whom come in at 7 in the morning and work till 6/7 at night.
Unfortunately, imo, it's going to take a huge sea-change, possibly with more men working part-time, before things get any better.

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oops,
a 'sea-change' is a profound change in the nature of something ie a complete turnaround. Apparently it was first used in Shakespear's 'The Tempest'

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My first reaction (apart, of course, from what utter crap it is that you can't work effectively p/t) is of total shock that the person you were talking to was so appallingly rude! Does she have any friends?

Ds has just started in Reception and has 2 Teachers who job share. One M,T W Morning the other W afternoon Th, F. It doesn't really bother me as they both seem nice and ds isn't affected but quite a few parents have complained to each other saying it must be confusing and isn't a good idea etc.

I agree with the lovely WWW except I think most jobs expect even longer hours - a 'normal' model of 8.30 till 6.30, at the earliest. Totally banananananas. And maddening.

Some jobs are harder to p/t than others, I fully agree, but I reckon more of them are feasible than we are frequently told.

I can't think of a job that couldn't be part-time tbh - an employer can always employ another part-timer to mirror the hours so getting the same amount of work done over the week. Many doctors and surgeons traditionally work part-time (3/4 time to allow for private practice); if brain surgeons can do it don't see why anyone else can't. The only problem is some companies are tight and will only fund one post so you have less than one whole-time equivalent. But they are choosing to save money that way.

I think it's appalling that some people are so dismissive of part-time workers - you have the same skills and expertis as you did pre-children. And it would really help people who care for other relatives if they could ask for part-time work too.

Guess everyone's right about it will only change when more men start to do it...

haven't read all the posts. as my dh says - of course, didn't you know, every job comes in perfectly formed 40 hour chunks. The woman you were taking to, emkana, was speaking out of her wotsit. The idea you can't do something well if do it for less is bolox. sorry no other word.

I job share a class, I do 2 days and my other half does the 3. We have 2 classes like that at the moment in my school. Last year we had 3.

Personally I find teaching just 2 days much more satisfying as I have more energy and feel I achieve more per day in the 2 days than I used to when full time and absolutely knackered all of the time!

Some parents are more supportive of it than others ime though. Some do tend to blame the job share when their children may be experiencing problems of one kind or another, rather than addressing the problem! Others see the positives: a wider variety of subject expertise, teachers with more energy and enthusiaism.

I think good communication is the key to making it work - thank goodness for e mail as I hardly ever meet my job share face to face. Though we used to work together when we were both full time so know each other quite well. The kids do try it on at the start of the year but once they realise we communicate with each other it stops!

In fact I have often said part time is the ideal work option.

does anyone ever say that Boris is crap at editing the Spectator because he combines it with being an MP? wish I could think of a better example. but you get my point.

very neatly worded hatstand!

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hatstand, ha ha, I like your style and feel that if no-one has said that about Boris they should, pronto!

I just think that there are lots of people who juggle things and who get judged on their results - if they turn out the goods they get credit. But as soon as the other thing you're trying to juggle is childcare people stop looking at results and stop making rational judgements based on what you produce - they just decide you're not "committed". tbh it's mainly a reflection of the importance attached to childcare. Got another job on the board of a company? trustee for a big national charity? edit a magazine? lecture at a university? WOW. spend half your week looking after kids? you're clearly a no hoper.

I was 'forced' to leave my job as a project engineer to take up a much junior role writing procedures for engineers because I wanted to work part time. My boss at the time was adamant that my job was a full time job and impossible to do part time. They made sure I had so much work to do, that it was impossible for me to arrive and leave on time without falling behind.
I can understand this coming from men, but from women? The work -till -you -fall -asleep -at- your- desk ethic it too ingrained in Britain.
Try calling an office in Germany after 5pm or 2pm on a Friday - they have their priorities right.

Im suffering the woes of my company not being particularly friendly towards p/t working. I requested to go p/t two years ago when i returned from mat leave with my DD. It has never really worked that well but that is totally down to my line manager. Of all the options he had to him to work it he chose to just cut my hours down from 37.5 to 20 without any consideration to the excess of workload. Im on mat leave again and considering not returning because of the hassle. I have this week, however, complained to my MD about the lack of understanding and how undervalued as an employee i feel i am now i am p/t.

My boss has said things like, now you are p/t - if you take emergency unpaid leave for emergencies instead of annual leave - you will still have your annual leave to take and you have enough time off now you are part time!

He made me put on my appraisal (which he has only made me do since i went p/t) that i struggle with my workload due to the number of hours i work! whose bloody fault is that FFS! He also told a colleague that she shouldnt have kids just yet (he knew she was undergoing a form of fertility enabling treatment) because she is doing so well in her job and it would spoil it.

Nice man. Its the boss not the type of work i tell you.

vivkitiredmum - don't put that you struggle to keep up with your workload because of the hours you work - put the company struggles to complete all necc work (in your area) because they have not recruited adequate cover. this is the kind of outrageous stuff that really pisses me off. People say you can't do a job p-t, well ina sense they're right - you can't do 40 hours work in 20 hours. but you can do 20 hours of very good work and they can take steps to restructure their work load. it's not rocket science

Hatstand - he really pressured me to do it and sign it in the week leading up to my maternity leave. I was concientious (sp) enough to keep the original pre-typed copy which he scrawled this comment on in his own hand writing.........

He also tells me i cant return to full time work now in this role (I am aware that it is all part and parcel of the flexible working/pt working regulations that you cant just revert back), but what he actually tells me is "You cant return to full time in this role you know dont you? If you wanted to go back full time, you would have to go full time in a less senior position".

Couldnt be promoted into a full time role of course....... obviously p/timers dont get promotions in our company!