Lawyer needing advice..

[rocket5]

Hello

I've looked back through past threads for some advice about my situation, but almost all the discussions seem to be about lawyers who are considerably more experienced than me, so I'd be really grateful for any advice.

I'm currently just over 1 year PQE (am in my late 20s) and have been on maternity leave for about 3 months. I work(ed) at a magic circle firm in a department which did a lot of corporate support work (pensions/employment that sort of thing - don't want to give too much away). My hours were varied - sometimes really nice and I was away by 6pm, sometimes not so nice and I wasn't home until the small hours.

DH works very very long hours and is regularly away for overnight during the week. He is therefore unable to help with childcare.

Before I left work I was not enjoying my job. I have no ambition to make partner, and did not like my team. Indeed, if I hadn't gone on maternity leave I'd probably have started looking around for another (probably non-law, but definitely non-MC) role. In fact, I'm not sure if deep-down my desire to get pregnant wasn't in part an unconscious attempt to have a valid excuse to leave work (I appreciate that sounds a little harsh - I truly do adore my DS despite this admission!!).

I'm now in the position of having to decide whether/when to return to work. I'm very fortunate in that I do not need to work for the money - obviously the extra I would earn would be nice, but we can live off DH's income.

We would like a second child fairly soon.

If I were to return, it has been made very clear to me that I would need to put in a lot of extra hours (over and above billable hours) strengthening my knowledge of my practice area. I would therefore be working very long days.

If I don't return we would have to repay my ML pay, plus I'd miss out on a bonus I'd get after 12 months back at work. The repayment wouldn't be the end of the world, and whilst the bonus would obviously be nice, it's not a life-changing amount. However, it does seem a bit silly to just walk away from that money.

I'm concerned that if I don't return, I'll be ruining my CV, but then again, if I don't want to go back to law, is this a huge issue? Indeed, is there any point in returning for a year and then going off on ML again (as would probably be the plan)? Surely, I'll be back to square one after a second ML anyway??

I'm also concerned that any request I make for PT work will be turned down since I'm too junior to make it feasible. Is this a reasonable assumption?

I'm going round and round in circles in my head. I do want to work in some capacity - can't see myself at home 24/7 - but I don't know if returning isn't just going to make life super-hard for no real long-term goal (other than the money). Would I be better off trying to get a short-term role in-between MLs in an area I think I ultimately want to move into post-children?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks

The thing that leaps out at me from your post is that they are saying you would need to work very long hours - you don't have to, just say you are only available for normal working hours.

They'd be on a right sticky wicket if they tried to 'make' you work longer hours.

Your priorities have changed now and I presume that you will have to be able to pick up your ds from childcare?

Only you can make the decision, but do consider that there are alternative career paths...

I was in the forces as a junior officer, then went to law school (30) qualified as a solicitor (32) at a big national firm. I didn't really enjoy the work (didn't have much for me as an NQ), and at exactly 1 year PQE (age 33) I had DS1. I didn't go back to work although I had originally intended to. I ended up having DS2 and about 3.5 years out. At the age of 36 I went back to work full time in in house job - and I love it.

DH is in the forces and not v reliable where childcare is concerned (!) but we have had a series of mostly v good au pairs.

What do you want to do and what will suit you?

Well, there's a lot of issues here, but the thing that jumps out at me is that you don't sound like you want to be a lawyer, in which case maybe the option is to not go back, spend some time working out what you do want to do, have your kids and get training/studying.

Laurie- sadly in law it's not that way. You do have to work really long hours a lot of the time. Especially MC and especially if you are junior. You are paid handsomly based partly on serious levels of availability to clients, and you can't opt out of the deal (or you can, but by moving to a PSL role or a much smaller firm).

I suspect that you are right that you would find it hard to get pt working at your level, to be brutally honest. You're still at the point where you need a lot of supervision, so homeworking days won't help. And I suspect you control little of your own workload and can't delegate much, making all the normal coping strategies for pt working hard to implement.

Try to think about the long term too. A few years in law gives you a lot more options - LPC teaching, PSL, in house. If any of those options would interest you, it might be worth slogging for a couple of years to get those opportunities for later. They will never come back if you walk away from the law now.

But fundamentally, if don't want to be a lawyer, and you don't need the money, I'd start thinking about a new direction. It's not the sort of job (particularly MC) to be in just to keep a hand in.

fedup - what area of law were you in? Were you general commercial? In house employment/pensions positions are like hens teeth, hence why a big gap on the CV and not much PQE would make it really difficult to go down that route later. If you did, wow, kudos to you. You must be seriously impressive.

I did a year of general commercial, but frankly I didn't do a lot of work - it was very quiet and the department hadn't wanted an NQ (long story!)

Now I work for a big commercial organisation (about 600 employees) and am the main "man" for contract reviews and employment queries. I am not sure that seriously impressive is strictly accurate (preens self) - I fell into it by accident, but it has worked out really well. To be honest, I feel like a dispense comonsense most of the time, as opposed to legal expertise! Sure the money isn't great, but I work sensible hours and from home about once a week.

LaurieScaryCake - I'm afraid RibenaBerry's right. I will have very little say in when I have to be in the office, and will only be able to leave to pick up my son when it suits the department and clients...

Fedup - thank you. It's so good to hear from someone else who was in a similar position. Sounds like you've got a great set up!

Ribena - thank you too. You've confirmed a lot of what I was mulling over (particularly regarding the PT aspect) and have really helped to focus my thoughts. Just so much going on in my head!

I kind of fell into law in my final year at uni, and enjoyed the first year of my TC but it's gone downhill ever since - my priorities have changed totally.

Yes, I know what you mean. I was lucky that I didn't have my kids until my early 30s and by then I had quite a lot of PQE under my belt. It helps...

Hi

If you're talented enough to have got into a MC firm - good for you that's excellent. I'm sure you can find something that's much better for your work/life balance (and sanity) either in house or in the public sector. The financial services regulatory sector is undergoing restructuring and they'll be looking for people c. 2012. With a MC training you'll be snapped up by any number of organisations.

Also - take the long view. You've had a gorgeous baby and want another so hardcore MC career doesn't suit at the moment; if you leave now, it's not the case that you're closing doors for good. Take some time out and then consider (when you're ready) approaching a more family friendly firm - A&O have been getting good press.

Don't stress! All of us professional gals go through this. I was at the Bar (terrible for mothers), left, did various things, have 3 DSs now, have spent the last 5 years working an average of 2 days per week (freelance/inhouse) and have just taken my first big job again so am cranking the career up. It wasn't that hard to find a decent job in fact. A good CV, and great training (which you have) goes a long way. 2-3 or even 5 years isn't that long over the course of a working life.

Good luck!

Def. wouldn't go back as it sounds like you really wouldn't be happy there. However, maternity leave is a good time to job-hunt so I would send your CVs to a few agencies for some in-house jobs, sounds like a company with a big HR department could use your skills. It think it would be tricky to get something part-time to begin with but after a while you may be able to be in a job that you could reduce hours in. Personally I wouldn't bother trying to reduce hours until after DC2, though.

I don't know if this will help but it may be of interest. I run a niche recruitment agency that specialises in placing lawyers into flexible and part-time positions - there are definitely roles out there that allow you to balance your career with your family. I'm wary about using this forum in a professional context but I hate the thought of anyone being pressured into working longer hours than they want/need to simply because the firm concerned isn't more flexible. I hit this problem after I had DD in 1999 and my city law firm weren't prepared to be at all flexible.

By way of examply, I've currently got a vacancy for a genuinely part-time general Company/Commercial role that allows you to balance your work with family commitments.

The position involves advising small and medium sized businesses on everything ranging from commercial leases to intellectual property to debt recovery, etc. The majority of the work is of a commercial nature, so the role is ideally suited to someone with a broad, general commercial background. The hours of work are also fixed (10am to 3pm Mon,Tues and Weds) so the successful person will not be required to work overtime/long hours.

It is based in Croydon and after 12 months there is the option to work from home - the salary is in the region of £34k but pro rated - so about £12.5k - not great I know but I understand that the team is really friendly and it is extremely flexible.

There are opportunities to balance diverse and interesting work with a normal family life. Please don't feel pressured into taking on more than you feel comfortable with - your children are young for a such a short time and you are the most important person in their life - there are many career paths but you only have one family.

I know a lot of women who have struggled back in between babies, just to keep the ML, and been pregnant already or very soon after. I would think about it but if you really hate it and think you can get a short term PT role, you could easily look while on ML, and keep returning to your old job as a fallback.
Flea - OT and sorry to hijack - would you mind posting your website or some way I can find it? I am a PSL (have been for a reasonably short time) but desperately miss client work and would really be interested to see what is out there that might be flexible.

Hi rocket.

I do litigation at a top 50 city firm. I went on ml at 1.5yr pqe so pretty similar to you, had the year off and have gone back part time, 3 days a week. I do 9-5 (and leave the office at 5pm regardless unless pre-arranged) have facility to work remotely if I need to in the evening.

Clients know I'm available on my days off if it's essential but not otherwise.

It works because my team leader is great and supports me in working pt and the firm generally is pretty family friendly and realises that a work/life balance is important. We have quite a few solicitors working pt (junior ones too).

I'm really just keeping my career ticking over until after I've had second baby (hoping to ttc next year). Really glad I have gone back though and find the pt mix works great for me. My concern about not going back while still v junior was that I hadn't built up enough experience to really transfer to another role. I did find going back easier in terms of picking up knowhow etc than I thought I would - my brain hadn't gone to mush as I thought it had!

I think that trying to do it in an MC firm would be difficult especially if you have an unsympathetic boss/team.

If I were you I'd look around for other opportunities - fleaT's agency sounds great!

Good luck!

I think you should speak to a recruitment agent to see what might be out there for you. Even if you decide to return to work, it will be good to see what else there is.

I am at a MC firm and do similar work to you. There are opportunities out there at the moment. I am quite a bit more pqe than you, but have seen part time jobs on offer.

Working at a MC firm with small children is hard. There is a lot of juggling involved and you often feel like you are doing two jobs and both badly. I am lucky that DH leaves the office early to meet our nanny twice a week. I don't think I could cope otherwise. You do have to work every evening, and as we all know LOs do not go to bed nicely just because mummy has a mountain of work to do so you get nightmare days when it's 8:30 or 9pm before you log on and you have 3 or 4 hours of work to do. On the plus side, the work is interesting and I personally enjoy being in the office.

Good luck deciding - it is hard to know what to do for the best but I think a MC firm demands so much of you that you need to really want to do that type of law in that type of firm to be able to make it work.

BTW if Springboard means anything to you, feel free to give me a call.

I work in a large law firm and have been back over a year now after M/L. First 3 days a week then 4 days a week. At first it was great to be back. The firm have been really great about part time etc and times when I need to leave early - no criticism of them at all - however I have come to the conclusion that it is not really feasible for me. This is partly as DS has special needs and so I feel I ought to be at home to help his development and just can't trust a nanny to do the same stuff I would. However it is also just enormously stressful even ignoring that, esp as my husband is also a lawyer. Our nanny works till 7.30 but as it is about an hour commute it almost always means one of us having to leave earlier than we really should to get home - so one of us (usually me...) has to compromise and rush out the door. Things do come up on my days off which I have to deal with and juggle with DS. And also when I do get home in the evening, by the time I have got a very excited (having not seen me all day) DS to bed, the thought of logging on and doing more work is the last thing I want to do! So I feel that I am not doing my job properly as a mum, or as a lawyer and something is always being compromised. And it has been a nightmare over the last couple of weeks with the nanny being ill, DS being ill, me being ill, keep having to have days off so look really flaky! I don't dislike my job but I have come to the conclusion that I am going to stop work and concentrate on DS at least until he goes to school. It is sad in one sense and I can't say I am not nervous about the change in my life, and not having my own money for the first time in my life, but all our lives (and most of all DS's) will benefit enormously I think.

Rocket I coudl have made your post several years ago. I had my first at 3 years qualified and like you decided I wasn't that "into" the job, not ambitious enough to want to climb the greasy pole, didn't really need the money etc etc. I ended up taking 4 years "off" during which I had another baby (!) and went back to being a PT PSL at a similar City firm - mainly because I felt I didn't know how to do anything else! I stuck at that for a couple of years but now I do a lot of VOluntary work and am here for the family and am a lot happier for it. Given the unique demands of City firms I would say unless your heart is entirely in it it is something to be endured rather than enjoyed and it sounds like you really have made your mind up...THere are loads of avenues open to bright motivated women. Enjoy exploring them!

Rocket, I could have written your OP a few years ago, also! In MC firm, doing EPB and 4 months pregnant when I qualified (which went down like a lead balloon, as you can imagine!)

Took long ML with DS1, had to go back as couldn't afford to repay mat pay, and was pg with DS2 within a few weeks of going back (which went down even worse...) Had lovely nanny for DS1, and was only back FT for about 8 months, but really regretted it, as hardly saw DS1, and found it all v stressful (with long commute on top).

Was fretting about going back and doing it all again after DS2, but luckily times had changed and they were willing to let me not return, as was end of 2008 so much harder times and not disastrous to lose a member of the team fairly painlessly.

Had enquired about going back PT, but was told was too junior, and only wanted to do 3 days, and was told it would be minimum 4 (if they allowed it, which they did for more senior people) and no fixed hours - so effectively shoe-horning 5 days' work into 4. In the end, DH got a job elsewhere and I was able to find a PT fee-earning position in a good firm in Bristol.

Still not sure that law is for me in the longer term, though - do not want to be partner, and feel sure I will be managed out at some point (has happened to a friend of mine fairly recently). But sitting tight for now, and will try to make decisions when am on ML with DS3 in a few months! Not sure about PSL (bit dull? but less stressful?), law teaching (College of Law opened in Bristol recently, considered applying but job spec v unattractive, I thought) or public sector role (fat chance right now, anyway).

I am certain that if we could afford it, I wouldn't be working at all, for a few years. Also deeply regret going back FT after DS1, even though was financially beneficial and meant I got second ML with DS2 (I know some people are a bit about women who do this, though).

Sorry, no help at all, and am rambling now. Just wanted to say you're not alone with this dilemma, and I hope you manage to work out something that suits you. I sometimes think I would have been better off leaving law after DS1, rather than hanging on in a profession I'm not at all sure will work for me in the longer term - but we can't afford for me not to work, and I can still earn a v decent salary doing just 3 days a week in Bristol, so it's working for us for now. Good luck!

Ha ha these unhappy lawyer threads some up with alarming regularity on MN!

Reading your OP you don't sound like you like your job, you'd rather not be doing it and you don't need to be. Think long and hard and if that is true quit. Seriously why bother with the stress if it is not what you want? Because it will be stress and and it will be hard and you don't really want any of it.

Now if only I could take my own advice (was at bar, moved to GLS whilst pregnant with DC#1 now preg with DC#4, clinging to idea of a job that I don't even like whilst stretching out not working with ML and career break but must make a decision fairly soon!)

If you leave MC law, be prepared for a huge pay drop, which after pro-rating for pt work will make you wonder why you even bother.

Why not stick with your law firm, have another baby on their watch quickly thereafter, then assess your options. You will probably never see the same money again.

Just saying ...

Aaaahh, Mog - I often think of you when I see these threads! Have no doubt you will work out who I am if you see this... Congrats on DC3, perhaps a DD this time but good luck with whatever comes along! I am still at the same place, as are the others you would know. Plus ca change...

Thanks, Hadeda! DC3 is another boy - I veer between being completely thrilled about having 3 boys, and feeling completely daunted - mainly by the likely noise levels, it has to be said.

Presume you must therefore be subject to the new "none-of-this-poncey-3-days-a-week-nonsense" regime that I have heard about? Or have things mellowed a bit?

How are your lovely DC? I might be dialling in to your seminar next week (if I have identified you correctly, that is!) - and if I can sort out the pick ups with the DSs...

I think you should definately go back to at least see how things go. Wt 3 months on mat leave i was thinking exactly the same as you and had similar feelings about work when i left and totally understand your comment about geting pregnant for a career break (obviously i wanted a child anyway). After 10 months i have voluntarily started back a few days a week earlier than was going to to make the process more gradual rather than straight in full time. I am actually really enjoying it.

You need to set up your stall with them from the start and explain that you will have child commitments and can only do set amount of hours per day. They can only hold you to what your contract says which will be the standard 35 hours per week. Say you will do whatever overtime you can when absolutely necassary but firmly set out that this will be only when really needed.

You can also make a flexible working request, everyone who has worked for their employer for 6 months is entitled to do this which includes reduced hours. Have a look on the ACAS website for more details. Unformtunately, if you want something you have to fight for it and you will need to be firm but try and offer flexibility where you can. If you dont ask you dont get.

If after going back you still really dislike it try looking elsewhere. Options i considered were law lecturer at a uni, working for a govt dept as always v flexible re: working conditions and hours (although think prob a freeze on jobs in public sector at moment).

Good luck!

Oh wow, how depressing rocket5! And I have a strange feeling that you are talking about the firm I'll be going to and working in the department I would eventually like to qualify into.

I am currently slogging my guts through the LPC and it makes me rather worried to think that this will be me in a few year's time (if not earlier!). I'm enjoying certain aspects of the LPC but finding it tough not seeing much of DS. Having been out of study for a few years, I had thought I was being extraordinarily slow working at what seems like a snail's pace and spending hours in the library at the weekend but I recently found out that we get more work on our MC firm-specific course than the standard LPC. It makes me a tad worried to think that if I'm seeing so little of DS now, how much worse will it be when I actually start my TC and eventually qualify?

Everyone keeps telling me to stick it out and qualify - I do want to, very much so, but feel like I would be sacrificing so much along the way. Not much helpful input, I know, but good luck in whatever you decide to do (And congrats on your LO!)

What is PSL?

Public Sector Law

Thanks.

Do any of you think you would have/could have stayed in your law careers if your partner had become a SAHP or worked p/t?