A Friend In Need................................

[Boe]

I have a friend who's child goes to a Just Learning Nursery.

She has just sent me an email detailing the lastest development at nursery:

I went to collect him yesterday and got called into the office. Apparently he bit a little girl and her dad went spare and started shouting the odds. Yet again I have to ask them the same question "if there is the right amount of supervision in a room, how on earth is this still going on". I told them that it serves no purpose me telling him not to do it when I collect him, he knows not to do it and he doesn't do it away from there.
Get this - then they give me this typed up "PLAN OF ACTION". This basically is a list which details in no uncertain terms that they are planning on changing the "structure" of the day within Hy's room. What it really means is that they are going to not involve him in tasks and activities, and occupy him on his own!!!!
I went absolutely spare. I told them in no uncertain terms that they will not do that to my child. I have no objection to them going into his room and observing his behaviour but they will not now or ever be able to ostrecise him from any task or group.
I am seriosuly considering taking him out of there and putting him somewhere else where there are not so many children in each room.
If they had nipped this in the bud 18 months ago when it started instead of brushing it under the carpet because they had staffing issues then he wouldn't be in this position now. I know it isn't nice for the other children to get bitten, no more than it was for him to be bitten, but I don't see that making him feel different to the others is going to change things.
He screamed the place down yesterday and this morning because he didn't want to go in.
Yesterday morning he wasn't even allowed in his room. So much for getting him into a routine. He had to stay in the "foyer" bit and play because they were under staffed until 7:30. Today there wasn't anyone in his room either so I had to have him pulled off me kicking and screaming and he was taken into yet another room!!
I just phoned them and he has bitten somebody else this morning. They have made a note of it.

He has been biting on and off for a while but as far as I knwo they very rarely have any members of staff that are there for over 3 months and they are regularly understaffed - she pays about £600 a month for 7am - 4pm.

Is she making a fuss over nothing?? I would go spare if anyone ostracised DD for anything more than 10 minutes - although the only person she has ever bitten is me!!

No, this is outrageous. Can she get a place elsewhere? My son goes to nursery fulltime, it costs me 7500 a year and I am paying for quality childcare so I don't have to feel quilty about leaving him there - I would be so furious I can't even begin to express it if he wasn't integrated properly, was kept in the foyer etc.
If they are understaffed then they are at fault for the biting, not her son.
The problem is, these places have you over a barrel as everywhere else has long waiting lists.
Teh dad making a big fuss doesn't help either - I know people don't like their kids being bitten, but honestly its not that big a deal is it? My son was bitten on the forehead at nursery last week, the toothmark was still there when I picked him up, but I jsut said 'oh dear'!!! If he's bullied them into this 'action plan' maybe she needs to make as much fuss herself to get attention? But if she can make other arrangements I think she should do, this place sounds pretty crap - poor thing, do pass her my best wishes and hope that is gets sorted out.

Boe this is shocking. Biting is so common that all nurseries have a plan they follow to deal with it. Both parents and carers follow it. I don't know if this is the plan your friend received, but I do know that they should take it seriously. It does involve ignoring the child when they bite and giving lots of attention to the bitten child. I doubt that dumping a child in a lobby is part of any plan!!!

A lack of staff is another issue entirely. It sounds like they are breaking all the government rules on child to carer ratios. Totally unacceptable whatever the fees.

I would be furious if it was my child. My ds has both bitten other children in his nursery and been on the receiving end. Sometimes children bite/hit eachother, especially in a nursery when there are constant struggles over toys. I am always told when my ds has bitten (and when he has been another tot's "victim", but that's because they have to tell me what's going on. I know they just take him out of the situation for a while and try to make him apologise. All nurseries should be used to handle these situations. I do understand that the victim's dad got upset, but he needs to understand that this happens in nurseries. Next time it's his dd who bites another child......

I find this quite worrying. It is their job to handle as he is in their care during the day. Secondly, I think this kind of behaviour teaches a small child that he is naughty and bad and surely this is not good vibes for a child to get ?

Boe, I agree with the others that the nursery do not appear to be handling this properly for the little boy's sake. If he only bites in a nursery environment they should be taking steps to help him control himself when "flash points" occur, not dodging the issue by not letting him play freely with his peers. That sounds a cruel and unprofessional way to deal with what is almost always a phase that many children experience.
Is this a local SE London nursery, do you mind my asking? Some of them have less long waiting lists than you might think if she is considering switching.

It could be worth getting the whole story from your friend. What you have told us is just the sketchy details, but he has done this before right? Do you know how serious the biting was? No child can be watched 24 hours a day, and the nursery are not to blame if he bites other children, they simply can't be with him all the time. This really does depend on how often he has done this, and how serious the biting is. I agree that separating him from the other children is a bit extreme, but the nursery seems to be caught in the middle. On the one hand they have the little girl's parents who he bit, they have a duty to reassure him that this will not happen again. They have a duty to reassure all parents at the nursery that biting will not be tolerated. Then they have your friend who is insisting that her son be allowed to join in all the activities, and seems to be saying that the nursery should be responsible for his behaviour?

Tell me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here. If he has been biting for quite a while, your friend needs to face up to that, she cannot put the blame solely on the nursery. They have to answer to all the other parents too. Perhaps she should look at why he is biting in the nursery only. Certainly take him out if it is understaffed, but he may well take his problems to another nursery. How old is he? Is he in the nursery 5 days a week? Maybe he just misses his mum? It doesn't sound like he wants to go to nursery anyway, and though your friend might not have a choice there, perhaps she could work out a few alternatives? He does sound like an unhappy child. I hope she manages to get it sorted soon.

how bad are the 'bites'? My dd got one from nursery and her poor little faced was bruised for a week and I wasnt very happy about it either so I can understand why the dad was angry. As for you friend I can sympathise with her too and if her and her son arent happy with the situation there Im sure they would both be happier with a more suitable nursery.

I have a friend who's ds was biting (following the birth of her ds2), the nursery were very understanding and their strategy was to move him up to be with the bigger kids - the theory being that they were more likely to be able to 'persuade' him not to. An interesting idea but it seemed to work! Your friend's nursery seems completely unreasonable

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I'd take him out. Forgetting about the biting issues, the understaffing would worry me. If they are understaffed in his room, how can they be sufficiently staffed in the foyer?? That can't be right surely!

With regard to the biting, a better plan of action would be for the staff to remove your friend's DS from the group activity for (say) 10 minutes after a biting incident for a Time Out. He should then associate the removal with the biting and get the idea that it's not acceptable behaviour.

I agree they should have a nursery policy on biting. It sounds like they are trying to placate the angry dad (and other parents?) on this one.

The understaffing would worry me too. I sounds that as a result, the nursery is too chaotic and that's not going to help behavourial problems.

As for this boy doing things apart from the other groups: I think your friend needs to know for how long the staff intend to do this. How will they reintegrate this boy back into the group? If they have no plans to reintegrate, I'd be really worried. The thing is, if he isn't playing near anyone of course he can't bite them, but is this 'curing' him of biting? He's got to learn to play with the group surely?

Incidently IME schools follow this separation procedure too. Perhaps your nursery is adopting a school practice? My oldest son for most of his schooling has routinely worked apart from groups because he distracts others so easily and won't finish his work. Even now he is 9 his teachers still don't let him do certain group things at school - he's given another task. They do it to head off trouble. I get quite worried sometimes when I ask him about this, but my son seems to accept it (he doesn't want to get into trouble either). He doesn't mind too much as he is included in groups for some of the time as well. If he was banned from all group activity permanently, it would be a different matter.

I think your friend has to insist that if her son is to play separately, an action plan of reintegration must be followed as well.

But overall, I'd look at ways to move this boy to another nursery.

I too would remove him from nursery. I would also investigate the legal staffing ratio's v's this nursery and then hit them with that!!

I have been on both ends of the biting stick - DD1 was bitten a few times, but DD2 was the biter at nursery!!. As it is a common problem within nurseries they should be able to deal with it and head off situations before it happens.

Leaving him out of everything could have a disasterous effect on his future social development.

Could your friend take compasionate leave from work due to not having childcare in place which may buy her some time in finding alternative care.

I hope it works out for her - keep us posted!!

The little boy in question has bitten before - it goes in fits and starts - he bit my daughter 3 times in one day but no longer does it at home or away from the nursery environment anymore - I spent the day with him on Saturday and think he is just going through a particularly difficult phase.

He has also been bitten at Nursery but my friend is aware that it goes on and says it is just one of those things that they all go through and hopefully grow out of!!

As for the understaffing - I was concerned because keeping him ostracised in a diofferent room (would go spare if DD was stuck infoyer) - would mean that a member of staff would have to stay with him all the time and this would make them even more understaffed.

My friend is a single mum and is trying really hard on her own to work and raise her child - he is generally a good kid and I have know him since birth - I would not say that he is any different to any other 2 year old and I know of 2 or 3 other children who have gone through a phase of biting so I don't think it is terribly troubling.
My DD has never bitten (other than me when playing) so it is hard for me to say anything - she also has never gone to nursery so I was not sure about disciplinary procedures etc...

I have passed this all onto my friend and am waiting for a reply as to what she thinks.

boe, another thought occurred to me. Is this nursery oversubscribed? if so could the nursery be using this tactic to make your friend give up her place? ie suggesting something to her that they know is unacceptable but just within legal care limits, so she can't issue a complaint.

If they are short staffed, they many want to weed out children who pose a bit of a challenge and therefore can take up more of their time, in favour of the 'easy' ones only.

I had this suspician about my son's nursery too.

outrageous. A certain nursery tried to do the same to my son (ostracise him) when he was 18 months old. His behaviour was odd, but didn't affect anyone else (he would "read" books rather then play with a ball - one example I was given,). A couple of times I went to pick him up and they had left him sitting on a chair by himself in the messy room while all the children were in the playroom. The third time it happened I withdrew him. He now goes to a fantastic nursery. And although his behaviour is certainly more difficut than when he was 18 months he is included in everything. So I'd recommend changing.

RE the biting. A friend's son has been biting for about 18 months. She was referred to the behavioural team. They pointed out that although parents tend to feel strongly about biting from a child's point of view it is no different to hitting. They don't understand that biting is worse. Therefore the approaches taken should be the same as would be taken for hitting.