Academics- advice on whether to even contemplate furthering academic career with 3DC in tow....

[JumpingJellyfish]

Trying to be brief, but would very much value any advice.

I have 3 DC (5, 3 & 10 months), one of whom has a serious medical condition which could necessitate short notice hospital stays etc.
I finally got my PhD this year after working part-time on it for 7 years. I have worked as an RA full time for 5 years and part time for 3 years, which is what I am currently.
I am being encouraged to apply for post-doc fellowships by my employing uni, and in the meantime to keep publishing and try to fit in some additional teaching experience. This involves of course doing some of this at home in my evenings, where time is very short (not helped by baby not sleeping well)!

I am at the point where I'm really not sure it's worth the effort. I love research, kind of enjoy teaching, but my DCs come first and the juggling act just working 20hrs a week as an RA is hard enough. A proper lectureship even in 8 years time should I ever get the opportunity would possible be too much to juggle- DH works long hours and would want to keep his job going.

Is it worth it? I could go the government science route as many of the contracts I've worked on over the past 9 years have been for government/legislative requirements rather than true academic research. I know jobs are thin on the ground (especially if you're not mobile) but I'd love if possible to at least stay in this general field. I'm 31 so still fairly young I hope!!

Thanks for any shared experience/advice etc.

H'mm really feel for you. Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate.

The way I see it, you are young, your kids are close together in age, and as soon as the youngest reaches 5, and they are all at school full-time, it's amazing how the pressure eases.

Would you be able to do just the one full-time job for now (looking after the kids) and then go back to your career part-time when the baby is at school? It seems a shame to spend these precious few (yes, few!) years stressed and tired. You might have to accept that your career won't be quite as meteoric as it has clearly been up to now, but who knows what the world will be like in 5 years? The economic crisis might be over ...

It would be hard to opt out of such a brilliant career, but I think you are lucky to be in academia, because it can still more easily be interrupted and resumed than many other sectors, imo.

I've always put my kids first, before my career as a teacher (school & uni), which is why it has stayed where it is for 8 years, and probably won't go any further.

So I don't have much money and occasionally feel frustrated at not having time to write another book, and yes, I have lost a lot of my oomph, but ... I do feel that I gave my kids as much as I could while they were growing up, and I am so glad that I am not so overburdened now that I can't see the last child through his exams.

Also, I can see the day approaching when I can dive back in if I want to. The incredibly busy full-on child-rearing years really don't last forever!

Good luck with your decision.

My guess is that this is very much field-specific, and it sounds as if you are in an area when you can keep your hand in. What's the likelihood of you being able to move out of academia and get a part-time job? Could you try to keep things ticking over with a bit of teaching, some publications and then see what happens? It sounds as if you would still have the chance of moving into another area of work, if you could keep your CV reasonably 'active.' On the flip side, it sounds as if you have very little flexibility, which is generally needed to follow an academic career. What's the likelihood that you would be able to pin down a lectureship without moving to a different part of the country? As I say, this seems to be very much field-specific. I'm in the Humanities where competition for jobs is so fierce, and employment opportunities so limited, that you have to be ready to move anywhere in the country.

In your shoes, I think I would go for the postdocs and worry about lectureships etc. when you get to that stage. Who knows where you will be and what your situation will be? And there is always the option to step sideways into e.g. government research.

"I think you are lucky to be in academia, because it can still more easily be interrupted and resumed than many other sectors, imo."

Can't agree with this, I'm afraid. Like dontrun, I'm in the humanities, and even a few years out would be the end. Dontrun's advice about keeping things ticking over, perhaps in a part-time role, and especially with publications, is good.

On the plus side, I think you have done amazingly to complete your PhD in seven years, while working part-time and having three children. I am in awe. The fact that your university is encouraging you to go for postdocs is also extremely positive - they must really rate you.

As you say, you are young, which is a real bonus. Perhaps you could spend the next couple of years working on DH too, and preparing for a few compromises on the work-life balance front? After all, if you've spent the best part of 10 years (by then) working p-t and taking on most of the responsibility for the DCs, it's only fair if he steps it up a bit once you've got your lectureship!

I'm sorry to be a cassandra but I agree with Inveterate... I really don't think - in the current climate and unless you're in a VERY in-demand discipline - it is possible to move in and out of academia when not on research contracts. Lectureships require ongoing commitment and it is really hard to step out and back in again because it is SO competitive and if the publications don't keep coming, you very rapidly become 'past it'. Sadly - it is bad for working mothers. Other things are good (day to day flexibility etc) but career breaks are NOT easy: even maternity leave is not properly managed in academia.

And frankly, in the current climate, you would be bonkers to walk away from the strongest funding source: if that is in contract research or govt research and you're in demand there, I would stay there. Mainstream academic jobs will - beginning next week and carrying on until all the funding cuts and changes have worked through - become VERY difficult to get I fear. And it's pretty difficult now.

I'm sorry not to be more positive. I was out at a dinner last night with lots of academic colleagues. Everyone is worried if they'll be in a job next year...

Thank you all. It is indeed my impression and experience that anyone who moves out of this area (I work in environmental/marine science) even for a year will not get back in. I went back to work (very part-time initially) when DC3 was 3 months old, as much as anything to keep my hand in but also because DH was made redundant (thankfully got another position shortly after).
It is very difficult balancing the level of commitment academia demands and DCs. I value enormously the fact that at the moment I can at least spend afternoons with the DCs, help DS with his homework, do the running about etc., cook tea myself... But it's tough keepin on top of it all, and I've had to spend quite a lot of my own evening time trying to keep on top of work at the expense of "domestic duties". In fact I think having (our much wanted) DC3 may have tipped the balance between just about managing the juggling to my present feeling of scraping by and lurching along! Which is why I've begun to wonder if I should just quit the whole academic career ideas and concentrate just on the DCs- it would undoubtedly make life simpler but we do partly rely on my salary (and will continue to until DH's job is more secure, which could take more than a year- and trust me we've done the budgeting and live quite frugally already)- and deep down I really love what I do. I'm very fortunate that the uni department I work for at the moment would like to see me retained in the dept in some capacity, but the Head of School has been very honest about the possibility of longer-term contracts etc. (i.e. no possibility for probably at least 5 years as they have a total freeze on recruitment).

Do you think if you keep publishing by working from home in eves etc. (unpaid) and not have any formal employment that any such "gap" would be ignored, so long as you kept getting papers out? I find it hard to reconcile the considerable investment of time and energy to publish for no immediate monetary return in the vague hope that it'll keep me in the running for better academic opportunities in the future with the easier option of just giving up!

I think the uni would prefer if I can keep doing bits of contract work/teaching/publish ongoing research that I am present in the dept at least 16 hours or so a week, rather than working from home in eves, so if I want to continue in this line of work I have to shelve any ideas of being a full-time SAHM, which is what originally I'd hoped for for at least one year following the birth of DC3.

I am so torn!

I think it is impossible - I have three kids - to work properly in the evenings, but everyone is different. I DO work many and some weeks, most evenings, but other things have to go: house is a tip except for half hour after cleaner has been, I rarely keep up with friends and family to my or their satisfaction, and we're always running to keep up. And I have a full time contract.

But in your position, if there are research funds available, you might be better trying to negotiate a long-term research post? I know of people who are able to bring in funds who have been able to convert to 5 year or even permanent senior research fellowships, but on the understanding that they are permanently bringing in their own income. I think the new laws on employment mean if you're in post for a period of time then you are entitled to a continuing contract. Usually this is got round by ending one contract with a gap I think, but it does happen. You should speak to your boss/HR dept.

But if you made this your longterm aim - and continue to bring in the funding for the qualification period required - then presumably you'd have quite a lot of control over your own terms. You could negotiate your hours, and perhaps build in more parental leave?

Sorry will write a much better response later...3 DC's and trying to write a grant on a sunday morning but I had to say

"I think you are lucky to be in academia, because it can still more easily be interrupted and resumed than many other sectors, imo."

is about the most untrue sentence in the world. Sorry. I worked up until three hours before I gave birth (although labour was only 2 hours, us academics learn to be efficient ) and was back sorting emails out the next day whilst my 18 hour baby fed on my lap. I am currently spending my maternity leave either grant writing and worrying about the DC's or with the DC's and worrying about my job.

Sorry digressing. And whinging. Again .

Post docs are the way forward in this climate I think and to grab anything you can in academia. I am losing my job next year. Despite working 60 hour weeks and publishing like mad. Its crap. I am now going down the post doc route hopefully if I can get anyone to fund me.

I think it all boils down to one question really - are you intensely passionate about your research? Would you want to research it even if you didnt get paid? Does the idea of giving up work and not being involved in the field make you sad? If you can answer yes to all those questions then academia is fantastic. If a job is a job and you are not inspired or that interested in your job, look for something else. My research is an integral part of my life but I have no life - work disinction. The two just blend into one and I never really stop thinking about it. However my research is about pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding and babies - and I love it and it obviously fits very well with young children as I hang out at baby groups, um, working. I can imagine if I was a physicist or something it wouldnt work quite so well.

Hmmm...this wasnt such a short answer after all was it!

Ah, yes, my research has been interrupted whilst on maternity leave, and I think I'll really 'pay' for that tiny break in productivity. (It wasn't the plan, but I was hospitalised with awful PND.) Academia (certainly in Humanities) just can't grasp the impact that even a relatively short time away from research can have. Sorry, I'm whinging as well.

Whinge away

sorry went awol ladies :)
peppa how do you juggle childcare while you're working? Do you find you get enough time to work in the evenings without everything falling apart around you?! I am finding it so hard to even free up one hour of the evening after DCs are in bed. I'd love to be in your area of research- sounds fantastic! Marine science doesn't have many working mums in it at least not here :(

For the moment I'm going to do my best to "bumble along" and try to get back into working a few evenings somehow each week to keep publishing, and then try for a postdoc fellowship- however if that fails I think I may have to re-evaluate my career. I absolutely love research but am finding I am increasingly at a disadvantage for working part-time and not being able to pour eveything into work. Also my health has given me a few "warnings" recently that I need to invest in that a little, especially exercise wise, so need to put some evening time into that rather than work. Tough getting the balance.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, any further tips always appreciated! Trying to pursuade DH to let me get a cleaner in to ease the burden a bit at home but financially things are quite tough for us so it's a no for now... Maybe I should work on cloning instead... :)

If you take your life as a whole, with all its different stages, you may find that there is time for everything, just not all at once. It would be a shame to get so stressed that you make yourself ill, especially when you have young children. In five short years you will be released from full-time child care anyway, and things do get much easier, surprisingly quickly.

Try to look at it with a longer perspective. There will always be a job/book to write for someone like you who is highly regarded in her field - have faith in yourself.

And I stick by what I wrote earlier: academia is one of the more family-friendly careers, imo and ime. You just have to make it work for you, and not the other way round!

Grannie - yes to some extent I agree as you usually have charge of your own hours - however you also admit that you put your children first and did not progress rapidly. Perhaps trying to progress in academia at a fast rate is not conducive with a family unless you work all hours god sends.

jumpingjellyfish - I am currently on mat leave but when I was in work I used to get into work for 7.30am and work until 4, then spend three hours with the DC's until bed and then pretty much work until 11pm. Every night. My house is an absolute tip although we do keep on top of washing, tidying etc almost in between writing. I desperately need that cleaner - get one!

I am lucky that I love what I do. Am currently writing a grant with DS2 fast asleep on my lap...

peppa - yes, you can't have everything - something usually has to go. You need to decide what matters most.

Good luck with your decision, JJF.