Question for Academics - four day week on postdoctoral contract or stay at full-time?

[BondJamesBond]

Hello academics! I've seen such useful information on this site previously so I wondered if you could help with this question. I am halfway through a two year postdoctoral fellowship. I am extending this with seven months maternity leave (which I'm half way through and am in reality still working just not being paid!). Until I went on maternity leave I worked full time but very flexibly - left to pick up DD at 4pm when in the office, five-ish when working from home. Often did work in the evening though.

I am now wondering whether to ask officially for four days when I go back. The main advantage would be that I would get to spend that precious extra day with the kids and (hopefully) feel less horribly guilty about the whole working thing. I should also be able to add an extra 20% on to the end of my contract, so extending it a bit which might give me a bit more time whilst in employment to find a job. It seems too that as I am on a research only contract now is a relatively good time in my career to aim for part-time, it might not be so doable in future.

However, I worry that going part-time will slow down my career substantially and also that I may be judged as less committed for not just doing the full-time thing. This matters as I am relatively ambitious I suppose but also somewhat mature, so feel I have less time to 'tread water.'

Another alternative is to carry on working officially full time but basically taking off half a day or so a couple of times a week (nobody would know, I work very much alone!) and try and make at least some of this time up in the evenings etc. If I do this though I risk simply shaving hours off and getting less done than others in a comparative position who are really working full-time.

Does this make sense? Does anyone have any thoughts? I'd be really grateful if so. Thanks in advance!

What are of academia are you in? That might make a difference - what do your colleagues do?

A typical academic day here seems to be to come in fairly early but leave to pick the kids up from school and then work in the evening.

Are you lab based? If not can you not work at home some times? Is there someone breathing down you neck? I am hoping to get a post doc now for the relative freedom - I think it is possibly one of the most flexible times you will have.

In terms of career, in this climate I would eek it out as long as possible and for as long as you can afford. There are going to be very few academic jobs out there. Also, from an academic perspective it might even be better as you will have time to see your research develop as such - papers, grants etc take a long time to come off so being part time is actually an advantage if that makes sense?

If I get a post doc now I am hoping to do it part time - maybe three days a week so I know I have that security of the job longer.

I think that it's generally accepted in academia that you do your work at the times which fit in with your research needs and your teaching needs. I have had a few colleagues who don't work 4 - 7 while they spend time with kids, and are then back working from 7 - 10, say. So I don't think this would necessarily be seen as wrong.

I'd worry that if you drop down to 4 days a week, you're going to lose 20% of your research output. Going part time in research does have the disadvantage that your research is progressing more slowly than all the other researchers in your field.

I'd say a lot depends on how much an impact losing a day a week would have on your research. Some areas it would be substantial, but in others with planning it might not equate to 20%.

In the current climate I think the knock on effect of extending your contract might well outweigh that a lot - as Peppa says more time to see research develop, time to get papers out. That's a solid research reason that people will understand - everyone's looking forward nervously now.

Hi everyone! Thanks so much for getting back to me. I am in a field of social science. The advantage is that I have pretty much completed my new research before I went on maternity leave, so the next year and a bit is basically focused on writing that up for publication, speaking at conferences etc. Extending the contract over a longer time would have the advantage of allowing (hopefully) more papers to have actually been accepted by the time I am applying for jobs, so exactly as you say, might be beneficial in some respects by allowing me to present a stronger CV. I don't think it would equate to 20% less work as that time would be added on. I think I know that my career may move more slowly than others for now (if at all - I am very worried about the job situation!) but maybe that's inevitable with two very small children. As you say Peppa, it does feel like now is the time I have the most freedom to be flexible so would be a good time to go officially part-time. Thanks again, really appreciate your thoughts.

are you me?

that very similar to the situation I was in.

I decided to go down to 3 days a week towards the end of my fellowship and then later on increased this to 4 days.

the pros:
some (relatively) guilt-free time with the boys

the cons:
am now realising that when people look at my cv they still just count up the papers without any thought for part-time working. This means that my cv looks like shit! Ad this makes it really hard to get get grant funding.

I did it because I had a permanent position guaranteed at the end of the fellowship, I'm not sure i'd have risked it without that.

nobody would employ me now.

but all in all I don't regret my decisions. That time with the boys was priceless.

Hi Muddleduck. That's interesting, so you've found that the same amount of papers over a longer period of time looks worse rather than better? Oh dear. I guess for me there's pros and cons either way as I could stay full time and push the same amount of papers out over a shorter period but then have a period of unemployment. Perhaps that would look better! I don't know, I have no idea at the moment whether I'm in with even a vague chance of getting a job at the end of this postdoc. I had a baby immediately after getting my Phd, and then couldn't find a job/contract for a while, so have only just got my first paper published - two years later! I guess if I'm so uncertain about what's going to happen, it potentially makes it even more important to do what will make me happy in the short-term - in other words, it might be worse to stay full time perhaps and STILL not get a job!

I'd guess that part-time is better than full-time plus unemployment. Getting a job is soo much easier when you are in day-to-day contact with people in your field.

are there any jobs going at all in your area? it is pretty grim in my field.

are there any other fellowships you can apply for?
the leverhulme?

(and btw my first paper was 2 years after phd and I didn't have a baby...)

I think I know what I meant to say now

Academia is tough. Of course there should be allowances - you have just had a baby, you have been ill, you are part time etc. But at the end of the day if you are applying for new jobs they are going to look at how many grants you have and how many papers you have written. Horrible, unfair etc I know

What I meant is that in this current climate - I am terrified at what will happen after the spending review - I would hang on to your post within academia for as long as possible but carry on working just as hard.

For example if you earn 30k now on a 5 day week, drop to 24k for a 4 day week but use that extra day to boost your CV - get involved in other projects, write grants, write papers. Ok so it is absolutely unfair but if you want the advice on how to get the best chance of an academic career that is what I would advise.

This way you have the job for 'longer' and might ride out a bit of this crisis. Does that make any sense? Ok, so its the same amount of money overall but what if you cant get a job immediately - a gap in your career might look bad?

I am not saying that this is what you should do, nor that it is right but it might give you the best chances. I am currently on mat leave and was sorting research out with a 2 day old baby - I dont see any choice in the matter if I want to keep my career going - and essentially I have to for my family.

If I get a post doc now (fingers crossed as I am losing my lectureship) I will take it 0.5 but work full time writing up papers, getting involved in other stuff to secure bids etc. This isn't fair I know but see it as my only way of getting a post - and it will mean I have job security for longer.

Saying that I will do school pick ups, spend time working from home but will end up working in the evenings most nights when they all hopefully asleep

Completely high jacking the thread though - how did you find getting postdocs? Did you get them direct from the main councils or were they positions you applied for?

I really want one but am worrying about how competitive they are. Did you have many publications / grants / experience?

Have just applied for four but am not convinced how coherent they are - DS2 is 7 weeks old

Whatever you do, I would fudge the p-t issue on your CV when you are applying for jobs.

It is horribly unfair, but most of the people I work with would judge somebody who had been part-time as uncommitted

The other thing I would say is DON'T feel guilty about taking the odd half-day off here and there. What counts is productivity, not hours spent at your desk. IME, colleagues who spend 14 hours a day working often end up with far fewer papers etc. than those who (for all sorts of reasons) work a more sensible day.

Good luck - and to you too, Peppa, sorry to hear you are having all this stress with a tiny baby. Hang on in there.

You should NOT be working while on mat leave. You therefore should take days to make up for those unpaid working days now you are back full time. No need to get HR or finance involved. I did that with DC1 and am planning same with DC2, in both cases with the full agreement of my Heads of dept (2 different univs). Think carefully, but if you think your Head would be amenable I'd work up a spreadsheet of days you worked on mat leave, with what you accomplished doing them, and ask if it's OK to do unofficial 4 day weeks until made up.

Remember Heads are under pressure to produce for the REF - so write journal papers (high impact factor), bring in grant income, contribute to your department's impact statement. Of course as a postdoc you will not be returnable (unless on a fellowship), but help an academic make an "impact", co-author a paper, bring in grant income and you'll get brownie points and generally make yourself more valuable for 4 days a week than not.

Alternatively, don't tell anyone but "work from home" to give yourself a day with your DC. You DESERVE to get paid back for the days you worked on mat leave.

I'm not sure I would agree with that totally, ziptoes. I was answering reviewers comments on a grant 2 days after a c-section whilst still in hospital with ds2. I think it is par-for-the-course in academia. I'm not saying it's right, but it is expected.

The advantage of a 4 day week is it may buy you some flexibility in your working time, but take care that you may in reality end up with a 5-day work load anyway. You may also find that you can not extend your position with 4-days instead of 5 either, depending on the exact conditions of funding, so check up on this before making any final decisions.

I would however, get started on paper writing. Even if your postdoc is not yielding anything yet, do you have anything from your PhD which is publishable? (It doesn't matter if you are at a different institution now, it is rare to publish as the only author on a paper, so your PhD supervisor/s would be co-authors too). Also, try to get some conference contributions as this will get you noticed and helps to critically evaluate your work just before publication.

Ziptoes - I would love all the time back but I would virtually have to get another nine months off during which time I would have to continue working which would mean I would get more time off...I may never have to teach again

Seriously though, most women I know in academic are under pressure to work like this. Of course we are not expected to come in and teach but a 9 month gap in the CV in terms of publications? Would not look good. Also I am terrified someone else would do the work in the mean time. With grant apps, I need funding at the end of this to secure my job so if I dont write them I wont get it and wont have a job - very unfair but reality

Hi everybody, thanks so much for these additional responses, I have only just checked after the weekend.

Re: working during maternity leave, I don't mind. I see it as a necessary investment in my career. Unfortunately I am paying for informal childcare on statutory maternity pay but I simply don't see how I can lay down tools for six or seven months and 'stay in the game'. If I actually am in it to start with, which I sometimes doubt!

I do have one paper from my PHd published as I said and another two that need a bit of further work before submission. Once I return I will have about 16 months in employment during which time I hope to get out at least another three papers, hopefully four, as the time will be devoted to that. Also I'll be doing all that other stuff such as writing up research grant applications, attending conferences and a bit of consultancy. My work is quite policy/practitioner relevant so that's useful I think on the impact factor. BUT I already have numerous gaps in my CV and whilst this second maternity leave so far has been spent working it's not on publications so there will be a long gap between the first paper I have had published and any subsequent papers. I'm really worried about it but I guess all I can do is get at much as I can out when I return and hope for the absolute best.

I actually research gender issues and constantly talk about issues to do with commitment etc etc with my subjects! Unfortunately there is a large gap isn't there between what perhaps would be right and 'fair' and what the reality is. I opt for pragmatism on the whole. I just think this is a highly competitive career and can only become more so as the cuts hit home. I have to find a way of competing basically.

So anyway, after that ramble, I think that perhaps the working four days but doing close to five may be the 'best' option. I think when applying for jobs they don't necessarily need to know that I was working (officially) part-time? I'll be annoyed if I do that and STILL don't get a job at the end though!!! It would mean that I would be paying to go to work.

Peppa - no worries about hijack. After my Phd I applied for an ESRC postdoc which I didn't get. Then applied for this one which is funded by the university. I count myself incredibly fortunate to have got it - I had a VERY thin CV, so no publications, and only a couple of conferences. I think my research happened to be a good fit with the research centre and there were a couple of political considerations too which worked in my favour.

Really really good luck with your applications.

Thank you - ESRC is ne of them, they funded my phd. Others are bigger hitters of 3 or 4 years. I have about 8 papers and 12 conferences and years of teaching experience so am really crossing my fingers.