Cant believe what my manager said today- warning could be long rant!!!!!!

[jamboure]

As many of you know I have 3 boys 1 @ 3.10 months and 19 month old twins who were prem babies- born at 29 weeks. We still attend hospital regularly esp with twin2 as he has quite a few problems. I have never asked for time off work to take the kids to hospital instead I have used my annual holidays.

We are due to see a consultant 3/10/05 regarding twin 2 which is not at our local hospital but the kids hospital in town so may take some time taking into account travelling etc. We got this appt in July and I immediately applied for a holiday which was refused as too many people are off- fair enough but i still need the time to take son to appt.

I approached my manager in July and advised her of this and today told her i would not be at work on the day mentioned but will take unpaid leave which i thought fair. She only hit me with well you have had x amount of family days of when your kids were ill(a few when twin2 stopped breathing i add) and we have tried to assist you but you now need to ensure you meet your contract agreement too. I am soooooo bloody mad and made it clear. She also asked do you think this would be an ongoing problem as when you changed to this shift you were aware your hours were monday to friday I said so you expect me to not go to an important appt where we decide when my son has an operation because the business says too many people are off on holiday

OUtcome is I keep trying for a holiday and if that fails it will be thought about again but could end up with a warning. Stated to the bloody bitch that my kids always come first not a job and maybe i should rethink who i want to be employed by

AM I OVER_REACTING!!!!!!!

NO . That is terible especially as you gave them so much notice. Surely they must realise that you can't pick & choose a consultants appt !
I hope you can sort it out & the twins are OK

Is there a maximum number of "family days" you are entitled to then?

What an ar$e.

OOO - Law says you are entitled to x days unpaid & they can't refuse unless VERY sound business reason. Someone must know the nitty gritty & find a link

Are you in a union? Could you approach Human resources /Personnel - find out what your rights are.
Sounds like a lovely company to work for!

As an employer my gut reaction is ....how can I keep my business open if everyone takes their holiday at once?? I would have to close and everyone would lose their job.

ps I've had a sh*t day - I'm not always this nasty.

My friend and I made a new word up last night for bosses like these - its "Bosstard"

Sorry you have an arse for a boss jamboure

any use ?

What a sh!t. As an ex-employer, I would never dream of behaving like this. I cannot imagine circumstances in which I'd give someone a written or verbal warning for arranging, months in advance, time off to take their child to hospital. Pathetic.

Gingerbear's right, if you are in a union or have an HR department use them.

ironically if you just call in on the day you could get emergency leave...

Hellsbells - then as an employer, when agreeing everyone's holiday, it might be as well to allow a contingency for people who may fall sick -or have important childrens' health issues - in addition to those on agreed holiday! I would always agree a staffing level that still allowed for an additional person to fall ill / have unavidable matters.

Chapter headings like 'The child cannot have operation because parents must work' are nothing but Dickensian!

Jamboure - no I don't think you ARE over-reacting, but next time you discuss this, I would try to avoid the 'my job doesn't come first' line, emphasise how conscientious and responsible you have been - i.e all time so far as holiday, long notice, offereing to take the time unpaid etc, and that you are confident that you can handle it in a way that your work is done well. BUT that you also expect a certain amount of co-operation and partnership in this from your employers.
And that you will seek advice (say this calmly, not in full vent), and come back to them if this cannot be resoved satisfactorily.

What's a "family day off"? Do you mean compassionate leave?

How many days compassionate leave and unpaid leave have you taken in addition to annual leave?

Thanks all for your info ans support.

We are not in a union as the company dont recognise one, it was over the papers etc that if all employees even some joined 1 then they would transfer all vacancies to call centre in india#

I don't think you are overreacting as I would probably have done something similar if I had been in your place. Although i do think that Blu's advice in her second post is spot on because you are not legally entitled to the time off but it may be worth your while writing a letter to your manager and copy it to HR dept to say that you are very disappointed that you have been refused leave to take your child to an important hospital appointment which you have been waiting for for X months. Tell them in the letter about your twins and how you try to meet your work obligations by taking annual leave to attend their appointments and that you hope they will reconsider at an early stage rather than add to your stress by letting you know whether you can have the time off at the last minute. Finish by saying that you are sure this is all due to a misunderstanding and that you are confident that as the organisation will want to ensure the good health and well being of their staff and their families and will, therefore agree the time off.

try not to vomit over the last bit of the letter - I know it is nauseating but the aim is to show them what a lovely employee you are who holds no grudges whilst at the same time you start to build a dossier to show a tribunal what a good employee you are in the unlikely event that you may need, at a future date, to go to tribunal. HTH

sis's advice is brilliant as always. Have lost count of the number of times she has offered wise words to folk here (me included)
Thank you sis.

Thank you!

try this www.acas.gov.uk/ You can phone them and ask for advice. they are really good, as I have had to phone a couple of times. My employer is being a bit funny with myself and collegues who have got kids. She hasn't got any so I don't think she understands. She has even made one girl bring her son into work because she had no sitter, then she had the nerve to give the boy tasks to do around the store room. My little girl starts school next year, I mentioned that I may need to change my hours to work aroung school, she said that the Government are opening schools earlier and closing them later so I can work the same hours. She's lost the bloody plot!

If you have a 'normal' child you can legally take so many days off work for appointments illness etc, BUT if you have a disabled or sick child its a lot more, I will try and find out exactly how much time you are allowed off for you.

Parental leave is the right to take time off work to look after a child or make arrangements for the child’s welfare.

You can take 13 weeks parental leave in total for each child up to the child’s 5th birthday (or 18 weeks up to the child’s 18th birthday if the child is entitled to disability living allowance). This leave is unpaid; your employer does not have to pay you for parental leave, but they may offer you paid leave under the terms of your employment contract.

To have this right you must:

have parental responsibility for the child
have worked for your employer for one year by the time you want to take the leave
give your employer at least 21 days notice, giving the dates when the leave is to start and finish
Under the law, you must take parental leave in blocks of one week or more, up to a maximum of four weeks per year for each child but your employer may allow you to take parental leave in shorter blocks. Parents whose child is entitled to disability allowance can take the leave in days or periods shorter than a week.

If your employer considers that your absence would disrupt the business, then they can postpone the leave up to a maximum of six months after the date you requested. Your employer should discuss this with you and give notice in writing, which should include the reason for postponement and set out the new dates for parental leave.

If you have applied to take parental leave immediately after the birth, or in the case of adoption the placement of a child, then the employer cannot postpone the leave.

Also look here

Yep sparkly - i think there is legislation for family days etc and jambourne you are within you rights to request it.

Jambourne - Its rather unnerving - seems like we have the same boss and work for the same company......... except my manager is a man..... I have had similar (but i dont have the stress of twins with complications - poor you).

I took a day off to look after my dd when she was ill because nursery refuse to take LO's with certain ailments. When i put in for unpaid leave he tried to get me to take it as holiday. When i told him to check with our legal dept he ignored me and continued on with it. I told him i was entitled to unpaid leave. He said "No, the way it works is you use up all your holiday first, and when it runs out THEN you take unpaid leave. The problem with you taking all this unpaid leave is that you still have holiday to take and you have enough time off now that you work part time. Besides - its up to ME to decide what is and isnt an emergency"!!!!!!!!!!

So sorry your boss is a bossturd (nice one jampots ) I totally sympathise.

She dont have kids i gather jambourne?

no he's not my boss jamboure - he binned me at xmas. My friend still works for him and he's getting worse

My boss DOES have kids but doesnt seem to understand

When i worked a different shift my manager was fab and understood what we were going through - maybe as she had prem babies too dont know.

They dont realise that with twins they are 2 individual people eg if you have 1 child you can get up to 2 hours medical leave for hospital/doctors etc with twins you still get 2 hours

I aint asking for preferencial treatment but maybe they should consider that 2 babies eqauls 2 appts= double work