Part time bank holiday entitlement

[zubin]

I have 2 staff who share a full time role - one does Mon, Tues and Weds morning the other Weds afternoon Thursday and Friday, we are totally going round in circles with regards to their respective bank holiday entitlements. The one who works the latter half of the week has been building her (pro-rata)bank holiday leave as extra leave as she never has to take it as bh don't fall on her working days, the other is having to take hers plus use a/l to make up the shortfall that she isn't entitled to; this doesn't seem fair but I just can't work out what they should both be entitled to and how to make it fair and the full time staff!!!
Thanks

that is how it should work.

and the only "unfair" bit about it is that the Monday'er is "forced" to take some of her holiday on certain days, while the Friday'er isn't - but they both get to take the same number of days.

I'm afraid it is prorata, dont forget that the employee who works on the Monday is getting that day off with pay, so the one who isn't is able to take another day off of their choice.

Not alot you can do except give employees the option of working the bank hols.

I can't work it out though - person 1 gets say 15 days leave plus 4 bank holiday days - she therefore has to take 4 of her leave days on a Monday leaving her with 11 flexible days. Person 2 gets the same but doesn't have to use the bh days or leave to cover them and therefore gets in effect 19 flexible days a/l - it is probably fair I just can't see how!

What Chasingsquirrels says - that is totally the way that it should be calculated.

They both have exactly the same days off each year - but the one who works the latter part of the week gets to choose when her days off are.

One of the reasons why I chose not to work Mondays when I went part-time

person 1 = 15+4 = 19, take 4 = 15 to take whenever, not 11. and they have taken the 4, just not their choice as to when they take.

This is the way we do it. It is fairer than the alternative.

Remind your Friday person that she won't have to work Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve this year..

They both get the same but of one works on the Monday and you shut then it is knocked off their entitlement. You cannot give person one the bank hol Monday off ex gratia as it is unfair to person two.

I work Mon, Thurs am and Fri. But in the weeks when there is a BH I only have to work 2 days instead and work all day Thurs and Friday instead so I get the whole of the Monday off without having to give up a days annual leave. Similarly the other people in our office who work part-time but not Mondays only work 2 days on BH weeks, rather than saving up the extra half-days. This is surely the only fair way to do it isn't it, let her make up the half-day later in the week rather than having to take it as leave?

I get my holidays in hours as I work part time - I get good annual leave adn therfroe soemwhere around 140 hours, this includes the bank hokiday - though 4 hours for each as I work half the week.

I don't work Monday's, but good friday is always on a friday and Christmas holdiays will soemtime fall into my days as does new year

your part tiem Monday help only has to use 4 hours ona Monday if you divide her holiday into hours rather than days

the full tiem peopel where I work get their holdiay in days rather than hours

Can we legally ask the person who doesn't work Mondays to take her equivalent of bh hours during the week when the bh falls rather than saving the hours up and using them as extra leave?

I work in HR and Salaries and we give everyone days/hours entitlements to holidays but still have to remind people that the bank hols, if they fall on normal working days, have to be knocked off. It's fairer but still throws people.

why do you not want her saving up her holdiays and using the holdiay when she wants?

Zubin no you can't - her contracted hours are as stated and you can't expect her to alter those unless she is willing to do so...she may have issues why she can't work the early part of the week etc.

Actually i don't have an issue particularly but some of the other (full time) staff are asking if they can work bh's and use the leave other days - we have said no but they are saying but X gets to add hers at different times! I wasn't expecting her to work earlier in the week etc just wondered whether we could say if it's a bh Monday you have to take your bh equivalent hours Wed afternoon?

i thought that while the employee is entitled to holiday, the employer can dictate when that holiday is taken?
But what is is their contracts, and can you treat one person differently by dictating some of their leave and not others?

Yes, actually you could do that if you wanted to depending on your company's annual leave policy.

Usually any leave is taken/approved at the managers/companys discretion so you could be prescriptive about when she was to take it.

so because full tiem staff want to work when you are closed - you then want to make another person have her annual leave when you want her to - though you dont' actually mid when she has it...?

I think you need to deal with the full tiem wrkers and leave the part time perosn alone as it has nothing to do with her/him that they work part time and don't work n a Monday

if the other workers wnat to not have the monday of -then get them to sort out stopping bank holidays

or give them flexi time or give them more annula leave

but don't take it out ont he part time worker

Blimey it's a hassle trying to keep staff teams happy! Thanks all for your replies

No we want to make her take her bh entitlement on the week the bank holiday falls rather than saving it up and taking a flexible week for example when it suits her, does that make sense? I am confusing myself now, it has arisen really because a ft staff member is now asking to work bh mondays to enable her to take a week off in school summer hols

she can take a week of in the summer holdiays - the last week of august has a bank holiday mondya in it

stop punishing soemone that works for you due to other staff wnating different arrangements

if the full time worker doesn't like the holdiay arrangements sort that out with her.

I am not sure we are punishing the pt worker who doesn't work Mondays wouldn't we just be requiring her to use her bh hours in the same way the rest of the staff team have to i.e take them during the week the bh falls or lose them?

you have a full tiem worker with a problem - why then do you include a part tiem worker in orting out the problem - which has nothing to do with her.

the full tiem worker isn't goign to lose the holdiay if she doesn't take the bank holdiay - as she is unable to work that day

but the part time worker is going to be told she has to take a days holdiay in the week a bank holdiay falls or if she doesn't do this - then she will havea day of annual leave docked from her time.

This isn't something that is in her contract of employment, it is soemthing you are goign to try to force on her - if she belongs to a union.. then they will tell you this is bad practice

and the original perosn is still nto getting what she wants

so now instead of having one unhaapy employee you may have two unhappy employyes and you still havn't sorted the problem

I would strongly advice you to contact ACAS who will be able to advice you clearly on how to keep relations with employees good

I am an employment lawyer of many years standing.

This issue makes me want to weep.

Talk to ACAS. Go with the line of least resistance. It's so blooming complicated it isn't worth worrying about and there is no right answer. I dread it each year when my practice manager asks me what the law is on this, it's just a nightmare.

That makes me feel better actually tigerdrivesbackin I have been going round in circles with it - I am no hr expert and our hr advisor seems strangely reluctant to commit to any advice!