calling mn academics...where do you stand on OU?

[hatwoman]

just wondered if any of you had views on whether OU teaching (distance teaching, lots of use of technology, some tutorials, lots of mid-career industry types doing the teaching and combining it with other stuff) would look good when applying for (other) academic jobs (including research jobs) or if people might look down on it?

and another q - as some of you may know I've applied for a couple of academic jobs and haven't even got an interview...if I decide I want to make a long-term go of academia (and I'm still deciding...) should I bite the bullet and go for a phd (costly) or should I have a concerted effort at ramping up the number of publications I have (possibly combined with the OU teaching)?

nothing wrong with doing some OU teaching. These days many academics are experimenting with using technology/distance learning, and hence OU teaching would be valuable experience. I supervise one of my PhD students regularly by skype for example because she is based in Boston for half her time.

For most of the jobs I've seen advertised, a PhD is required and I don't know of any university lecturers who do not have one. However it may not be as costly as you think - particularly if you already have a decent research track record. You might well qualify for a research council grant or you might be able to work towards a PhD part time while doing a post-doc (and getting paid!)

Perhaps a first step would be to develop some sort of link with a university - eg ask if you can attend seminars and work in the departmental library.

Good luck!!

My OU tutors tended to be PhD students - I think it was a bit like demonstrating and tutoring when I was PhD student myself - something to earn a bit to supplement the studentship. Don't know how it's viewed by academics though, sorry.

The answers to these questiont are all so subject specific that you need to find someone (on mn or rl) that works in the field.

In my field the OU teachign wouldn't be a big deal (I did some as a PhD student and it never made any difference to me). Also in my field a PhD is essential.

But it may be different in your field.

I think we have talked about this before, and my feeling is that unless your field is very different to mine then whenever you apply for an academic job there will be many applicants with PhDs ahead of you in the queue. Sorry if that is not what you want to hear, but unis are putting huge emphasis on emplying staff who will get research funding and that is very tough without a PhD.

To be honest I think you need to have a sit down meeting with somebody who works in your field at your local uni.

Agree with muddleduck - I think it is very subject specific.

I think the OU is fantastic, but I can't imagine OU teaching experience helping when applying for a research post.

I suspect that whatever your field, publications will be important.

One other thing: if you do decide to make a go of academia, how mobile are you prepared to be? Almost every academic I know has moved to take up their job - often to a place they wouldn't have necessarily considered in the normal run of things.

An excellent idea to have a meeting with someone in your field - take your CV in, and ask them to give you some unvarnished feedback.

Best of luck!

I don't think anyone would look badly at your application because you'd been an AL at the OU (quite the opposite), but I think not having a PhD will almost certainly be an issue.

It sounds like you are research active, so have you considered looking into the PhD by publication route?

thanks for the responses...I'm increasingly of the view that, if I do decide academia is the route I want to follow, then I have to bite the phd bullet. Most jobs are advertised requiring a phd "or equivalent experience" and I had thought that I might, in my field, scrape into the "equivalent experience" thing...I've got an academic post graduate degree with a sizeable research component, publications, a book offer, I've presented at a conference, I've lectured and have 12 years in "industry" (for want of a better word) and I bring in consultancy money. but it's not enough - certainly not in the current environment. My sector has a lot of cross-over which made me think it might be possible...the person who does the job I did up until a couple of years ago, for example, works there p-t and at a university pt. (but he's just finished his phd)

re mobility - I'm not mobile but can think of 10 universities (of varying type) that I'm prepared to commute to

I'm currently weighing up the options...OU teaching and/or ongoing consultancy could maybe see me through a PhD without breaking the bank...but maybe I could forget it, continue my hybrid existence and enjoy the freedom it brings...

I've just realised that it's wrong to say I haven't had an interview...can't believe I forgot this (must have blocked it from my mind) but I have had one interview. didn't get the job - but the person who did didn;t have a phd and I was told (in some delightful hr-speak) that I was the spare...in case the first choice fell through. I kind of discount it as it was an unfeasible commute and as it was a pure fundraising research job rather than a lecturing one (and as such jobs are like hen's teeth...I have only ever seen one advertised in my field in the whole country)

A lot of lecturers in Business faculties don't have PhDs, do they?

I'd second what OUacademic has suggested and look into the possibility of PhD by publication, although these are usually given to existing members of academic staff.

Which subject area are you in? I think that does make a difference as to whether a PhD is required. In science a PhD is an essential (plus usually several years of postdoc experience), whereas friends in arts and social sciences don't always have PhDs.

It will also depend though on the type of role you are looking for. You will not be able to supervise a PhD student as their principal supervisor if you do not have a PhD yourself and hence this would restrict you being able to set up your own research group. Unless you are looking in the longer term for a purely teaching or administrative role, this will affect your progression as you will not be able to spend the time writing grants (to generate research income) whilst doing all the hands-on research yourself plus teaching. In this respect, getting your PhD (and at the same time bumping up your publication record) will be invaluable.

The OU might be a way to give you some additional teaching experience though and would certainly be interesting in terms of exploring technology for distance learning and this would all be relevant for a teaching position in a more conventional university setting. In particular as more and more resources are becoming web-based and there is a certain move away from only standard lectures.

thanks Unseen - that's helpful

I'd have to disagree with unseen - I think the last time anyone was appointed in the arts/humanities without a PhD was about 1994 when I was appointed! It tends to only be people close to retirement now that don't have them, and they will be a sine qua non in any job spec.

Personally I'd look favourably on OU teaching - it shows the right understanding of what education is for, a willingness to think about different teaching methods and styles, and the ability to teach people from a wide range of backgrounds. Most universities have increasing numbers of mature students/non-traditional students, and also are keen to experiment with blended learning (e.g. online/podcast combined with seminar/tutorial)

PhD is, in my experience, absolutely essential in the Arts and Humanities. When I was on the academic job market (6-7 years ago), it was possible to get a job when you were close to finishing your PhD. Now we wouldn't consider someone without a completed doctorate, and preferably with a book very close to completion.

I may be a bit late but I really wouldn't do the OU teaching to get into academia. I did it and really enjoyed it (amazing students) but I now don't even mention it on my CV.

If you had a book or high ranking journal applications plus fundraising/consultancy you might just squeak in without a PhD in my field.

If you do a PhD, I'm sure you know this, but do it at a place a with a great reputation for your subject and think carefully about the supervisor. If you use RL work you've already done you might be able to do it surprisingly quickly, carry on consulting, publish while you go along and be applying for a permanent job just before the next REF when everyone confidently expects the academic jobs to reappear ...

OU teaching can be useful in getting a lectureship but is not relevant to research. I'm an OU AL and also have a PHD - everyone teaching my course that I know of either has one or is a PhD student - so it all depends on the subject.

The person I replaced got a lectureship and felt the extra OU teaching was very helpful in tipping the balance. We both had Oxbridge PhDs and teaching experience but he said the added variety of teaching seemed to go over well. But that's on top of a good PhD - not instead of one.

thanks for the input all - really useful.