Things with colleague getting nasty - Help! Advice!

[BoffinMum]

I've got an unmanageable deputy, although I am doing my best. She's not very popular at work because she's a bit prickly and sulky, and she is the type of person who runs around looking busy whilst interfering with things she has not been asked to, sometimes causing problems for other people, whilst telling everyone how wonderfully efficient she is and how neglectful of my duties I am (which I am certainly not).

I have broad shoulders and believe it or not quite a good track record with dealing with difficult people, so up until now I thought I was coping with her quite well. However she is now turning very nasty indeed and tomorrow it is highly likely to come to a head and end up in her waving her hands and shouting at me and telling me she does everything around here while I sit at home, whilst I attempt calmly to defend myself point by point in a tit for tat way (hopeless, I know!)

I have found out whilst I was off on maternity leave she started being rude about me behind my back and on my return kept hold of a lot of seasonally related duties without telling me (eg started interviewing and appointing new staff without telling me and presented it as a fait accompli). She also misunderstood some key aspects of the role and made a bit of a mess of things while I wasn't there, which is starting to have a few repercussions (although she is not the sole reason for the problems, I have to say).

If anyone has advice or thoughts on this, I am all ears.

I'd recommend a good book "Dealing with people you can't stand" to give some coping mechanisms for a person like this. It talks very much about why people behave like they do, in this case it seems very much as if she wants things done "right" and believes she is the only person capable of doing it, so the book gives strategies about how to acknowledge her positive intent, whilst saying what needs to be said. Unfortunately it won't arrive before tomorrow.

I would stop defending yourself, you don't have to justify what you do to her, you are the manager and you know she has not been doing a great job so why do you care what she thinks of you.

You could also try rehearsing the conversation in your mind, what key points do you want to put across, if she says x, y and z, how will you respond.

Finally sympathies, I have had a couple of awful members of staff ( and some nice ones) and it's a complete time wasting pain.

" waving her hands and shouting at me and telling me she does everything around here while I sit at home"

"how neglectful of my duties I am"

"whilst I was off on maternity leave she started being rude about me behind my back and on my return kept hold of a lot of seasonally related duties without telling me (eg started interviewing and appointing new staff without telling me and presented it as a fait accompli)."

Insubordination.

I'd issue a warning, if you haven't already, with a very clear message about the set of improvements you expect to see, with measureable timescales.

Thanks for advice. I will certainly read the book. I did a course on 'Handling Difficult People' a while back but it wasn't quite enough for this.

You're right about the insubordination thing. I am inclined to think that the next time she tries this on I will give her a warning. It has happened once too often for my liking.

I was going to ask if you'd been on the 'Handling Difficult People' course (we work at the same institution, different Depts).

I have a feeling that you might work in a Dept which is particularly known for having bad personnel issues, and which has had less than great leadership shown at the top in the past?

Does she have a clear job description? I'm guessing that she probably doesn't, as it's been a problem in my previous Dept. I wonder if having a much, much clearer job description would be a good starting point, together with a clear list of targets to achieve in order to progress. She's clearly somewhat bonkers (I am refraining from guessing who she might be), but I think that the University makes things so vague about job descriptions, roles and so on, that she probably does have some excuse for screwing up as she has done.

How about getting her to go on a course to improve her communication skills and ability to relate to people appropriately? Maybe she could go on the one on communications, or on 'Springboard'.

GrendelsMum, from the Springboard reference I think we're in different institutions. I am not in that University any more, I have moved (although I know exactly which Faculty you mean and I worked with both of the most bonkers people, to my despair). But we have the same problems of patchy management at the top and equally bonkers people dotted around the place.

I have done a job spec for her and she is deeply wounded by the idea that her account of what she thinks she has done over the last couple of years (i.e. practically run the thing whilst I arse about being pregnant) is not there, and my version of events is. In fact she's spent so much time bigging up her informal job specification and CV that she honestly believes the stuff she is saying. She's also limited on academic subject knowledge, so she doesn't understand some of the more nuanced issues, and she has been assuming that just because she runs about a lot, that she is 'leading' and 'running things', whereas in reality the real work of leadership looks a bit like a swan, smoothly gliding along on top but paddling like hell underneath. 'Busywork' is quite simply not enough at this level.

It's all a bit toxic, tbh. I do not have direct line management responsibility for her as it's a collegiate structure, but I will certainly feed up any further insubordination to our boss as and when it occurs, as that's not acceptable. I will warn her I am doing so as well, unless you lot think otherwise.

"I have broad shoulders and believe it or not quite a good track record with dealing with difficult people, so up until now I thought I was coping with her quite well. However she is now turning very nasty indeed and tomorrow it is highly likely to come to a head and end up in her waving her hands and shouting at me and telling me she does everything around here while I sit at home, whilst I attempt calmly to defend myself point by point in a tit for tat way (hopeless, I know!)"

That's your second paragraph and from reading that only it sounds as though you're her deputy rather than the other way around. The dynamic sounds all wrong. I appreciate from your last post that you are not her line manager (how that can possibly work when she's supposed to be your deputy?!), but you are more senior than her and at least on a day to day level have responsibility over her.

The way she is speaking to you is completely unacceptable but you need to ask yourself why is it even occuring to her that it is acceptable? Something about your own behaviour is leading her to believe that she can get away with it.

You need to drastically change the dynamic. You are her senior and do not need to defend yourself. If you start defending yourself against her ranting and shouting you are sending the message that it's acceptable for her to be challenging you this way in the first place. You should absolutely refuse to engage with her if she behaves like that. You need to tell her firmly not to do it and if she continues, just end the conversation, rather than engaging and defending yourself.

You need to have a conversation where you take control, tell her exactly what she's doing that is unacceptable, and you need to make sure you pull her up on it every single time. It's like children, if they get a negative consequence every time they do something wrong they (usually) soon stop.

You talk about next time 'giving her a warning', but there's a whole area of firm management in between her getting away with it completely and receiving a disciplinary warning. I'd suggest a conversation where you point out some examples of completely unacceptable behaviour, re-iterate how your relationship should and will work, say that you do not want to have to start any formal warning process but in the event of any repetition, will feel you need to.

Oh dear, how grim. Sounds like she's the sort of person that also manages to pass the idea of 'busywork' onto others. And if she's limited on the academic subject knowledge, that's also going to be very awkward.

Pleased to hear you're not at that Faculty anymore, as I worked with some pretty bonkers, 'busywork' people there, and it was not pleasant.

No help, but sympathy from me!

As ever you speak wise words, Flowery. I have been soaking up her bad humour like a sponge, making excuses for her, rather than dealing with each incident as it occurs in the right way. So I have contributed to this. I think I knew that in my heart of hearts.

I am assuming it would be prudent to do any meeting 1:1 rather than get a colleague sitting in, otherwise she will probably feel very got at indeed.

I am also wondering whether I should let her know that there have been complaints about her teaching - my line manager suggested I did need to tell her, but I have chickened out as I know it would rock her world.

I have been a bit cowardly, on reflection. But will reform and sort this out.

boffin, you poor thing.

Flowery has said it all of course, but it shakes you to the core having to deal with this kind of stuff. I do feel for you.

boff i absolutely would not have a difficult meeting like that without a third party doing minutes tbh.

Make absolutely sure you have an observer or minute-taker present!

erm.. woops. It's Hairytriangle here

Have you had the meeting yet?

And what about her line manager? Surely he/she should ahve something to do wiht this?

And what about her line manager? Surely he/she should ahve something to do wiht this?

Have spoken to her, did quite well in meeting after all this advice . Air a little bit cleared. Specifically mentioned the fact that I did not like her being rude and that I wanted this to stop. Have gone to our line manager and expressed concern at duplication of duties and behaviour of individual concerned. Apparently it may be that she is taken off this role and I am left to do it alone! In hands of line manager, anyway. Always be careful what you wish for ...