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Original poster

Should I trust them?

24 replies

lal123 · 13/09/2010 18:04

I'm due to return to work soon after 1 year off on maty leave. I will be returning to the same department (NHS) but know that there have been significant changes to my job in the time I've been off. I know that I'm not entitled to ask for exactly my old job back.

The issue is that I suspect that my new role won't be at the same level as when I left - I will have lost a lot of my budgetary responsibility and staff management roles- which were the bits that made my post the grade it was. I've got a formal meeting with my boss next week. Informally she has said my grade won't change. However, I'm a bit worried that if the new job is ever evaluated it will be evaluated lower than my current one.

Should I just accept any changes, or should I ask for the role to be evaluated before I go back?

OP posts:

DancingHippoOnAcid · 13/09/2010 18:17

Don't trust them - get it evaluated. If they are being striaght with you they should not mind.

Original poster

lal123 · 14/09/2010 07:50

Only thing is that the evaluation process could take months - and what do I do if it does come back lower? Can I insist on returning to a post of the same grade?

OP posts:

DancingHippoOnAcid · 14/09/2010 08:47

Yes you can lal - it is your right to return to a job of the same grade.

In my experience, if you just do things on the nod and trust your employer to look after you, you will get shafted.

Best to get it all sorted out officially and correctly then you know where you stand.

I would be surprised if your employer has any objections to this. If they try to make it difficult I would tend to think they have something to hide.

flowerybeanbag · 14/09/2010 10:05

The trouble is insisting on returning to a post of the same grade is dependent on there actually being one. Is there a position available that definitely is the right grade? Or would you hope one would appear by the time the evaluation process is completed?

DancingHippoOnAcid · 14/09/2010 10:35

Yes good point flowery - but I certainly would not just accept vague verbal assurances from the boss that the job is the same grade - OP needs to know exactly where she stands. If she then decides to accept the job even at a lower grade because there is no alternative then at least she is doing it with her eyes open.

And rest assured this job WILL be evaluated to look for cost savings if there is any possibility that its present grading is too high, even if OP does not ask for it.

flowerybeanbag · 14/09/2010 11:22

Well yes of course she needs proper information about the job so she knows where she stands, I wouldn't disagree. When she meets formally with her boss next week she should make sure she gets all the details of the role, job description, grade, etc

My point was you can 'insist' all you like, if there isn't a job that is on the right grade there isn't one. So as well as getting proper information about the proposed job, getting information about what else might be available will help lal123 make a decision.

DancingHippoOnAcid · 14/09/2010 11:31

Yes agreed flowery.

Just don't think relying on informal assurances from employer as a basis for making decisions is very wise!

Original poster

lal123 · 14/09/2010 18:18

Thanks Hippo and Flowery.

There won't be a new job description - dept has woeful history re updating these (before I left my original jd was well out of date and bore little resemblance to my role) I think I'll just be expected to pick up other work which has appeared as a result of other posts (lower grade) not being filled.

I don't think there is another post of my grade suitable (though don't have any access to vacancy information while on maty leave, so who knows?)

I suppose I could just go back as agreed (trust boss that post won't be being reevaluated in near future) and keep an eye out for something else? Complicating factor is that I want to go back part-time - which is unusual for my grade so very unlikely to be a part-time post available. To be honest I don't think I have much choice?

OP posts:

DancingHippoOnAcid · 15/09/2010 08:47

Yes that is the problem with going part time - it is very difficult to get a job at the same level as you were at. I have had the same problem and have just had tp put up with it while the kids are small.

flowerybeanbag · 15/09/2010 09:24

You should insist on the job description, if the role is different from your previous one you need to know what you should be doing. Having said that of course you can update your job description yourself, rather than wait for someone else to do it.

If your boss is unable or unwilling to give you a job description for the new role, make sure you get as much detail as possible about what you will be doing, then after a few weeks in to ensure you have got a feel for it, produce your own job description and submit it for approval.

Leaving aside the part time issue for a minute, from a tribunal's point of view you have to be offered something 'suitable' on your return. I don't know how much of the job content has changed obviously, but on the face of it, if your salary is the same the post is graded at the same level, and the work fits your skills and experience, then the fact that you think at some point it might be evaluated and might be downgraded may well not be nearly enough to convince a tribunal that at the moment it is not a suitable alternative.

Having said that, if you want a change to your terms and conditions, you are not in a very strong position to argue about possible future re-evaluation. If you apply for part time your boss may say that the change in job content is the reason your request can be approved.

BeenBeta · 15/09/2010 09:30

Trust no one. There are massive cuts coming (even in the NHS) and budgets are under pressure. Your boss may not be there in 6 months and nothing will be written down.

I have found over the years that pushing someone to write something down usually reveals how 'trustworthy' their assurances are. I suspect the verbal assurances you are getting are because your boss is not in a position to guarantee anything to anyone at the moment but does not want to admit it.

Stuff that is written down carries a heck of a lot more weight in a Tribunal.

DancingHippoOnAcid · 15/09/2010 10:05

Absolutely agree with BeenBeta - if it is not written down, the assurance does not exist.

I would go further - stuff that is NOT written down does not exist as far as a Tribunal is concerned.

Original poster

lal123 · 15/09/2010 14:49

thanks again - meeting is next Tues, will update then

OP posts:

saintlydamemrsturnip · 15/09/2010 14:53

Given recent experiences I have had with NHS management I wouldn't trust them one little bit. Get everything in writing - confirm conversations with a quick email etc etc - every little point.

nancydrewrocked · 15/09/2010 14:54

So out of interest how does the position of there not being a job available at the grade to which you are entitled to return fit with an employers obligation to keep your job open to you whilst on maternity leave?

JudyPink · 15/09/2010 15:08

Do you have a HR department who you could negotiate with too? Our HR department are really good at sorting things like this out.

Original poster

lal123 · 16/09/2010 07:51

Nancy - because I've been off for a year I don't have the right to return to my exact same job - just an appropriate one.

Judy - our HR dept don't really advise on things like this - they'd end up offering me a cleaning job or a clinical one - neither of which I'd be suited for! I want to keep them OUT of it if possible!

OP posts:

DancingHippoOnAcid · 16/09/2010 08:31

lal - you are right that you do not have the right to return to the exact same job but it must be one of the same grade with the same level of pay and benefits.

Assuming, of course, as flowery has pointed out that there is such a job available in the organisation or you are looking at a redundancy situation.

Original poster

lal123 · 17/09/2010 11:54

Redundancy would be great (only half joking) I'd be entitled to a full years pay just about and could spend some more time with the kids - not going to happen though unfortunatel!y

OP posts:

DancingHippoOnAcid · 18/09/2010 12:38

lal, it may happen, you just don't know.

Sounds like it might be a nice option for you.

Original poster

lal123 · 21/09/2010 08:08

Meeting due today has been cancelled - boss is ill, not likely to be back at work this week. Could potentially gibe me only 3 weeks to sort out childcare if I don't get part-time. Is there a time limit for them getting back to me?

OP posts:

flowerybeanbag · 21/09/2010 09:41

Have a look here. A meeting to discuss your flexible working request must be held withing 28 days of your employer receiving your application. I imagine the NHS has a detailed flexible working procedure so you can check to make sure it's being followed.

Original poster

lal123 · 21/09/2010 09:54

Thanks for that Flowery - I requested on 10th August - so looks like they are already outwith that timescale Think I got sent a copy of hte flexible working policy when I first went on maty leave - goodness knows where it is now! Will have to have a hunt for it.

OP posts:

Original poster

lal123 · 27/09/2010 10:00

Meeting was rearranged for today - but boss still off sick. She's texted me and we've agreed to me coming back 3 days a week - makes it all seem real, in 3 weeks I'll be back at work (agggghhhhhhhhhh!!!) On the plus side I'll have accrued a load of hols and think thank if I'm back part-time I'll have about 11 weeks hols!

Does this seem right? -

Hols run April - April. I've carried forward 4 days hols from last year (DD2 arrived early, maty leave brought forward). I get 35 days AL a year. So - I'll have accrued 6 months worth of full-time AL while on maty leave and will have 3/5 of 35 for the rest of the year.

4 days carried forward
17.5 days accrued
10.5 days for parttime rest of year

Total of 32 days AL to take. - Working only 3 days a week that means I've got almost 11 weeks AL to take before April? Woo Hoo!

OP posts:

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