Part time and bank holidays - is this right?

[fantalemon]

I wonder if someone can help me regarding part timers and bank holidays.

Basically, I am going back to work after maternity leave on a part time basis (4 days instead of 5). Under my old full time contract I was entitled to 25 days. My new holiday entitlement (as a part timer) is 20 days which seems fine, i.e. 4/5ths of my old entitlement.

BUT my employer is saying that, in calculating a part timer's holiday entitlement, they include statutory bank holidays (unless they fall on a day I wouldnt ordinarily be in the office).

So, this means that a full time worker would get 25 days plus 8 days b/h but a part time worker working 4 days would only get 12 days actual holiday (as the other 8 days are bank holidays).

I appreciate that an employer can include statutory bank holidays as part of an employee's contractual entitlement to leave but surely if it does this to part time workers it must do the same for full timers? I have already had a few wranglings with HR so would appreciate any advice about this before I wade in and start arguing that it is treating part time workers unfairly.

Thank you.

I had the same problem when I worked part-time. It is unfair but I presume there is a legal loophole which allows them to do this. I also had several 'wranglings' with HR! I job-shared which made it worse as I worked Mondays so invariably had much less holiday than she did!

Thanks MBHDN.

It does seem really unfair as its putting part time workers at a direct disadvantage.

My DH had a word with his employer's HR dept and they seem to think its wrong and at worst my employer should only pro-rata my entitlement to BH.

Statutory holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks so everyone should get this amount or pro-rata if part time. It doesn't matter if they normally work on a bank holiday this gets knocked of the 5.6 weeks. Your employers are giving more that the statutory i.e 25 days plus bank hols rather than 20 days plus bank hols which equates to the 5.6 week statutory. You should get 4/5ths of this.

Sorry that didn't make sense you should get 4/5th of the 25 days and 4/5 of the 8 days bank hold regardless of whether you normally work on that day or not. So they are wrong.

Thanks - I would have thought it would be 4/5 of a full timer's entitlement too but they are quite clear that its 4/5 and then bank holidays taken out of that! Think I might have to challenge this one...

Hmm, this is a pretty contentious one as lots of employers really struggle to find a solution which doesn't provoke complaints from someone!

Basic legal position is that part-timers must not suffer a detriment on the ground that they are part-time workers, unless it can be objectively justified which does apply to an employer's policy on granting Bank Holidays.

A policy where Bank Holidays are awarded in proportion to the number of days worked is likely to be justifiableand it is possible to justify giving Bank Holidays only if they fall on a part-timer's usual working day - if there's a good reason.

Generally the main 4 solutions employers use are:

1. Part-timers get all eight bank holidays regardless of the days of the week they work. If they don't work on days that the bank holidays fall, they get given an extra day, often in the same week, ie a 'Tuesday-to-Friday' 4-day-worker would have the Tuesday of a bank holiday week off instead of the Monday. In some organisations this may provoke complaints from full-time staff.

1. Don't give them any at all. There is no statutory right to bank holidays. However, not allowing part-time workers to take bank holidays would be very high risk of a claim, either of detriment to part timers directly or indirect sex discrimination.

1. Provide paid leave on bank holidays when the holiday falls on their normal working day, but not if it does not. This may advantage those who work on Mondays and disadvantage those who do not.

1. Pro rata the bank holiday leave across the year. eg, a part-time worker who works three out of five days should therefore be entitled to receive three fifths of the bank holiday entitlement. This is the approach previously recommended by the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, not sure why not now. Some employers find it a lot easier to enforce this by calculating it in hours to avoid arguments about fractions of days etc.

In your circs, I would say either of your employer's positions are legal - to add BHs extra or incl BHs - but that it's on pretty dodgy ground to do one for part timers and a different - more advantageous - ones for full timers, so I'd challenge. The Gov website may be useful to use if you do.

HTH

You need to look at the totals. Full t?mers get 33 days. You should get 4/5 wh?ch I make 26.4

Thanks tigger. Think I will have to challenge although will have a peruse on the internet first to see if there is any guidelines. I just wanted to check first that I wasnt going mad in thinking it was unfair.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Although there is no specific legal right to bank holidays, you need to be treated no less favourably than a full timer. You also need to have at least 28 days pro rata to your working hours.

Let me just check, you work in an office and everyone is Monday -Friday right? Reason I ask is that if full timers are on a shift rota and can lose out on bank holidays which don't fall on working days, it's not treating you less favourably than a full timer.

The accepted way to treat this is as Flowery said. You get 4/5ths of what a full timer gets. Then if a bank holiday falls on a working day, you have to use some of your holiday entitlement. If it falls on a non-working day, you don't. This can leave you a bit short if you work Mondays, as loads of bank holidays fall on Mondays (especially this year with Christmas), so you might use a higher percentage of your total covering bank holidays than a full timers (something to consider when agreeing days...), but it is fair.

Thanks RibenaBerry. I have asked HR for further clarification and what they say is essentially what RB has said ie i will get 4/5ths of full time allowance (ie 4/5ths of 33 days (25 days a/l and 8 days b/h)) i.e. 26.4 days and where a bank holiday falls on a working day this will be deducted from my allowance. The reason they give is to ensure they are treating all part time workers fairly.

It has been agreed that I can have Fridays off (BTW none of this was mentioned to me when agreeing which day to have off).

Looking at bank holidays next year, 6 out of the 8 fall on a Monday and only 1 on a Friday. What I don't understand is that if my day off was actually a Monday, then only 2 days out of my part time holiday allowance of 26.4 would be deducted from my allowance and I would have 24.4 days to take when I like but because I am having a Friday off, 7 days come off leaving me with only 19.4 days to take when I like.

Sorry if this has got a bit long winded but I am struggling to get my head around the fact that it is fair. Any more advice would be very much appreciated.

Yes, that's what I mentioned. Your day off may mean you need to use a higher percentage of your total to cover bank holidays. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes - perfectly legal I'm afraid.

Fanta - you will end up working the same number of days but if you have Monday as a working day you will have more days when you are directed to take holiday rather than hving free choice.

As full timers are being directed to take holiday time on bank holidays you are no worse off.

Yes you would have more choice over timing if you had Mondays as non working day but that is an unfortunate consequence of timing. Do you have any choice over the non working day or is your employer dictating it?

Thanks RB and DHOA - you have made it clearer for me now (my brain struggles to get in gear post baby). As you say, its just the way the cookie crumbles but wish Id known when I was asked to select which day off to have that I would have more days to choose myself if I worked a Monday. Got place at nursery for Mon - Thurs so too late now to swap to monday, even if they let me.

Think about it as a week that there is a bank holiday Monday you only work 3 days that week instead of 4 so one day is taken off your holiday entitlement. Whereas I, who works Tues-Fri work a full 4 days that week so am able to take a day off another time.

I was working Tues-Fri, now changed day off to Wed.

This wasn't reason for changing but one of the advantage is -

I use my day off to do household chores without feeling it's eating into family time. With all the b/h I was losing housework days. Now with Wed off if it's b/h week I still get bonus day with family but also have housework day!

I have not read whole thread but I work 3.5 days (70%) and I do work Mondays. Normal fulltime hol is 25 days + 8 BH, so I get 70% of 33 days (about 26). So yes, in theory I only get to choose 18 of my holiday days but since most BH's are in holiday times already it hasn't really been a problem.

I think this is similar to what other posters described.

Sounds like they're following fairer guidelines than you originally outlined, well done for following up.

The only other thing you can try is, depending on your job, whether you can work the BH and take a day off in lieu on a date of your choice. I was able to do this as I could show my line manager that I had plenty of stuff which didn't depend on other people being available to get done but it will depend on your role.

I would just like to add the following question to this:

What if someone goes p/t from 5 days to 3 days a week BUT the hours are compressed?

Still entitled only to 3 days pro rata holidays?

thanks.

If you're doing the same hours your annual leave hours should remain the same. It should be worked out on hours worked NOT days.

To the original op - I've never met any part time worker who works on Mondays who feels the BH thing is fair - but it is how it is and it sounds like your sorted with the right amount of leave now.

Yes jaabaar it would be 3 days. There's no right or wrong way to work it out, but if your company does it in days, it would be 3.

You will still get the same amount of holiday as before if you are doing the same hours though. Previously you may have got, say, 5 hours paid time off for a day's leave. If you are doing compressed hours you will get, say 6 paid hours for a day's leave, or whatever it works.