Condensing hours

[mowmi]

Hello, I'm just about to go in to battle with my boss regarding flexible working following my return from maternity.

My ideal is to work most of my contracted hours in 4 days instead of 5.
So my day might look something like this: -

Start 9.15
Lunch 30 mins instead of 1.15
Finish at 6.30 instead of 5.30

I work in an environment where most of us regularly work late without pay - my worry is he'll come back with something along the lines of "we all work until 6.30 - you want me to pay you for it?"
Is this a reasonable arguement from him?

Thanks for listening!

I understand that if the company can demonstrate that there are valid business reasons that they can refuse a request to work flexible hours. He won't be on a strong footing if he comes back in the terms you suggest as in that case you may have recourse. That in itself brings problems - you may decide to leave and pursue some form of claim and, in that case you may be without employment with no definite guarantee of any claim succeeding and then you also have the question of obtaining a reference etc.. If you stay, you may just have to put up and shut up as it were. Not wanting to depress you or put you off. I would ask for the reasons to be put in writing if your request is refused. As i say, the reason has got to be business related. if he is aware of that, he could probably come up with some reason. The business obviously has concerns if it requires staff to work additional hours without pay. i work in a similiar environment and i hope you get the hours you are looking for. However, in our place, alot also depends on whether your face fits.. Fingers crossed for you x

Hello Mowmi

I hope that this isn't the case for you, but my experience is that if you are working long hours for no extra pay and this is the accepted 'culture' of the organisation then your HR people will guide your boss to come up with a nice fluffy business reason for refusing your request and short of resigning and going to an employment tribunal, there's really not much you can do about it. They will just come back to concerns about performance or customer needs or whatever suits them.

Sorry to be cynical, but this is just my experience. If you can persuade them to give it a try for 3 months or something that would probably be your best shot.

I hope you can talk them round and they can see how much more committed and engaged you would be if they allowed you some flexibility. Good luck!

Thanks ladies. I so hope this wont be the case. They do need me to come back so with a bit of luck this will put me in a strongish position.
Other girls in the same position as me have negotiated 4 days but have to run out the doors at 5 - I'm hoping my boss will see me being able to stay late as a good thing (he thinks senior people dashing out the door at 5pm is bad for morale)I've had an inital chat with someone in HR (albeit not particularly senior) and she didn't think it outrageous?
Wish me luck!

x

I've just found out that one of my male peers has managed to negotiate working one week a month from France so he can keep his long distance relationship going! Surely my request is more reasonable?
x

I would turn down your request, sorry.

Condensed hours only work if other people work roughly their contracted hours. If you are expected to do more for the needs of the job, you are effectively asking to work four days and be paid the same as others are for five. That's never going to fly.

Attacking a long hours culture is a separate issue, but I think your boss is on pretty good legal ground to say no.

Sorry.

Ouch. Thanks anyway RibenaBerry.

Sorry, I know I can be a bit blunt.

I suppose where I am coming from is that you get one chance every 12 months to make a flexible working request. If you like your job and want to go back, isn't it best to be realistic about the chances of what you want getting accepted? If there are other 'not ideal but I could live with it' options, are they worth considering?

ps. I work part time too. Everyone works long days. Condensed hours would never have washed in my place...

Appreciate your point of view - will post back and let everyone know how I get on!

I am afraid I agree with Ribena.
I work 4 days a week and wouldn't dream of being paid for 5, even though I often catch up on work at home or on the weekend, etc.
It would be extremely unfair to other people who work full time.

Fair enough. Will have a frank converation with him - I can either leave my evenings open to work (i.e. husband does pick up) or I'll leave at 5 like the other mums do (which he hates)and do the pick up myself.
Appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Spoke to HR today and they said it might be difficult to manage? I've been told to have a chat to my boss and assured if he doesn't go for this I will be able to suggest something else i.e. this isn't the final request - looks like the process is fairly informal?

will put it to him but have full time, finish at 5pm + one day from home up my sleeve.

Gutted to not have more part time choices...damn the recession and the £20k cut in DH's overtime!!

Guilt of putting DS in full time childcare has hit me like a bullett - spent most of the week crying when I look at him

Sorry, but I agree with Ribena as well, it would be terribly unfair to everyone else. Hope you get your backup flexible working request sorted though.

I undertook research on this for my MSc. Condensed hours in this kind of situation don't every work, as Ribena says. But what you are proposing instead - dashing off at 5 every day - will also go down very badly as well.

Quite simply, if you are being paid the same as the person next to you then everyone expects the same productivity, and if you leave a couple of hours early every day then their value to the firm, relative to yours, goes up, and yours drops.

If instead you shorten your hours (however you do that) relative to that person, whilst also reducing your pay by the same amount, then everyone percieves that to be a fair exchange and everyone is happy.

whilst your bosses may tolerate some people dashing off every night, it will count against those people in the long run unless they are able to demonstrate very clearly that your productivity has shot up in the hours they are there (something quite difficult to do).

It depends on your career intentions, but I would always advise a commited careerist to trade in some salary if they are planning to perform fewer hours than their peers, whether those hours are paid or not.

It is always a juggle when you have fixed hours of childcare but a flexible culture at work. Can your DH help share the burden of nursery pick-ups and suchlike?

Although I've not read what I wanted to I really appreciate you all taking time to impart your advice.

After much thinking I've decided not to ask for for condensed hours (despite being re-assured by my colleague that I would probably get it as he's worried that I'm not coming back) as it will result in me being run in to the ground and the thought of not being able to put my angel to bed after a tough day is worrying me - my working day would be too long monday to thursday and this would impact on me, DH and DS.

I'm going to ask for 5 days with one from home, 5pm finish with the flex to stay late when absolutely required (plus I can log on at home etc...) I'm also going to ask him to be flexible when I'm at home so I can start at 8 and leave the house to pick DS up at 4 when my workload allows. I've worked for him for a long time so he should trust me to not let things slip with clients and my team.

I'm in on Tuesday so will report back.

Boss was fine - we've agreed 5pm early finish Monday - Thursday paid for by shorter lunch break + half day from home on Friday which I am very happy with.

Good for you - nice negotiating!

Cheers mate x