Punctuality - does it matter?

[ProstheticConscience]

Colleague A turns up late (nearly) everyday. It varies from 10-20 mins. A then faffs sorting out drinks, saying hi and getting comfy. So they often (~95%) start work 30-40 mins after they're supposed to. They don't leave on the dot of 1700 but neither do they consistently stay back the time they came in late.
In the meantime I have to deal with queries and anything else that comes up.
Raised with this with the manager, B.
Bottom line is B doesn't think it matters if they come in late, they're doing their hours and getting the job done.
B made excuses for A about variability of traffic making it difficult for them to get in on time.
My DH is expected to start work on the dot of 0815 and his employers expect him to leave home at whatever time he needs to to get to work and start on time.

I think it's part of being a professional and responsible attitude. A has said they'll start work at 0900 - they should be here to start work at 0900.
Plus there are other members of staff who have been pulled up on being late - how we can expect them to do it if A (senior team member) isn't leading by example.
I've suggested that A changes their start time so it's more in keeping with when they do arrive which B has agreed to raise (finally).
I expect people to turn up to work on time (childcare problems, Drs appts and accidents notwithstanding). Has this approach to working gone out of fashion?

I'm with you here. It's annoying as in our organisation the managers don't have set hours as they are expected to put in the work required to get the job done.

I would expect a work colleague to be at their desk at 9am for a 9am start; in fact I was once told that "to be dead on time is to be late" and that you should always be at places with 5 mins to spare.

Now that is a bit OTT but........

I think it really depends on the nature of the job.

If it is the type of work where by being in after 9am you are inconveniencing others, then it's not really on.

In my line of work (PR) it really wouldn't make a jot of difference. People tend to arrive at work anytime between 8am and 10am depending on workload, childcare drop offs, gym trips, meetings etc.

Unless it's just not possible because of the nature of the job, an element of flexibility over start time isn't unreasonable I don't think. Afterall it's more about the efficiency and quality of work rather than every minute and second spent behind a desk.

Thank you both - I was beginning to think IABU!

The work is public sector and so is a mixture of intra-, inter- and extra-departmental working. We have to be here to liaise with colleagues (both work at the same level, mirrored jobs) and to deal with queries from various external agencies. It is always me picking it up first thing in the morning as A is never here. So, yes, it is inconveniencing others, particularly as issues which need sorting (usu PITA) come up first thing in the morning so it's always me dealing with them.

There is flexibility in terms of emergencies, unavoidables and known factors (e.g. need to do the school run today). What is bugging me is the seeming inability to get up, get out and get into work on time. I manage, the majority of the rest of the staff manage it, so why can't A?

We are both at a senior level and do have to do extra hours on occasion (no paid and no time off in return but hey ho) so we are expected to give. A seems to be getting all the flexibility back whilst I stick to the 'rules' and just do extra.
Perhaps I should start leaving early randomly and see what happens

The thing with time keeping that really gets on my tits is that they (being management) expect you to be in before 9am so that you are ready to start at 9am, which is fair rnough BUT if you start packing up ready to be gone by 5pm - they are not happy

They kick up a fuss about people being late - ok, I mean we are paid to be in on time etc, however, if something comes up and you say sorry, can't stay and sort it as I need to leave at 5pm (contracted hours and all that guff), you get cats arse mouth..and its usually from the managers who have no life and expect you to eat, sleep and die for the company

On reflection, I am not sure why I am working there..

I totally agree PIJC, its give and take but no give. 'It comes with the level of seniority' is what B brings out and so does A. But this doesn't extend to getting in on time though?

I am trying to leave on time more regularly 1/3 so far this week! And the cats bum face appeared.

With CrazyCatLady on this.

Is there any way you could manage to be on an important call or in a meeting from 9 to 10 or so, to highlight that A is not in? I'm thinking you need to highlight the problems it causes when they are not in, without being late yourself, because I think that will backfire.

I have a lot of sympathy with you.
It's all very well saying "they get the job done" but if you are fielding all the enquiries in effect you have a bigger workload, so no wonder A gets theirs done in 30 mins less time!

Do you answer the same phone? Is there any way you can deal with the first enquiry and for the second one say "A will call you back on this" and start making sure they are equally shared? It sounds like your boss is determined not to help on this.

I'm in a similar position although its more on a weekly basis than a daily one, and hopefully it's temporary.

My jobs list is as long as my arm and I'm working all the hours, because the rest of the team have been on holiday....now they are starting to come back and do fun stuff, while I'm still wading through all the tedious problems that have been around for weeks.

There is a huge project every 3 months that we all contribute to that is now due - everyone else is back fresh from hols, bright and breezy, getting going on that, while I'm exhausted, got tonnes of other stuff to do, and will be late. Then the boss will just hear "Allarm was late for the delivery" and I'll look like the bad guy. I'm already working all evening, I can't do any more!!!!!!!!!

Next year I'm going to take a strategic week off in July to make sure I'm not around when the crap starts to come in!

Thanks for the opp to vent
Hope you get it sorted.

Sorry just read the bit about B raising changing A's start time, so they are not determined not to help! That might work....then you get to leave at 5 leaving A with stuff to finish?

It was me that suggested to B that A change their start time. If they're 99% of the working week not going to make it in for 9am then it's more realistic to acknowledge that.
The nature of the work means it's tricky to pass things onwards.
My conclusions so far are
a) work to rule - easy to say, impossible to do
b) try to distance myself from work - ditto

allarm bells - vent away

Oh and B very begrudgingly agreed to raise a change of start time with A. We'll see what happens.

I'm a director, and if a manager asked me ot deal with a late colleague, I too would be vaguely annoyed (as the OP's boss seems to be).

If it is a senior role then the focus has to be on output, not input, and it drives me mad how many people think 'being at your desk' is more important than doing a good job. If the job gets done well then I couldn't care less if someone turned up an hour late every day. It's substance, not form. Happy employees = productive work and I trust senior staff enough to manage themselves and their workloads effectively. Different people have different values and in any diverse organisation you have to expect this and adapt to it. Junior staff however I do expect to turn up on time or early - mostly because their work is determined/managed by others and because of this, they need to be there in order to deliver work as directed.

In terms of you feeling put out, then it will seem unfair if you have to deal with all the early calls, but the best way for you to look at this is to bear in mind that your punctuality is part of the 'value' that your employers place on you. It seems clear that what they 'value' about your colleague is something different but obviously doesn't include an element of reliability. But they do value her. If she did all that she currently does and got to work early then your relative value to the firm would drop, because she is adding some of your weapons to her arsenal.

So, to be honest (and apologies for sounding a bit harsh), but I think yes your approach has gone out of fashion. I think your manager has failed in this; but not by letting her come in late. He has failed by not explaining his position on this clearly to you, and by trying to ignore somehting that is clearly creating issues in the office

Unless you work flexi hours you should get to work on time. Everybody is late every now and then but getting in late should not be the norm.

StillSquiffy - but this person is NOT doing her job as her job is supposed to involve doing her share of dealing with queries in the morning which ahe is not doing as she is not there. I would agree with your points if her job did not involve this direct contact with clients. The OP is effectively being forced to take on part of this woman's job as well as her own. I think the OP is justified in being miffed about this, as it leaves her less time to do her own job, which is what SHE is judged on.

For some reason her manager is treating the other employee as a special case (she and OP do the same job but OP is not allowed to be late in this way or there would be no-one there to deal with the morning queries).

Personally, i think it is possible the OP's manager is having an affair with this woman ( or this woman is blackmailing him ).
In this case I would advise you, OP, to drop this matter. You could make yourself a target if I am correct in assuming this woman has some leverage over your manager. He is certainly not going to take any action against this woman.

OP, I think your only options are to put up with the situation or find another job.

The manager B is female. The colleague A is male.
They are not involved AFAIK.

It's interesting to read other peoples' opinions and takes on the matter.

We expect the junior members of staff to be in on time and some of them have been pulled up it.

In terms of our value to the dept. I hope my contribution goes beyond punctuality! I do think that my reliability means that others in the dept know that stuff will get done, phones will get answered etc but is it fair they that essentially get flexibility from that which I turn cannot rely upon?
In context again of value to the dept A and I both applied for the job a few years ago. I got it. A was a fairly recent appointment as the workload increased. A is still a little sore that I got the job from the comments he's made - even though I've not brought it up at all.

I am going to leave for the moment and see what happens.

Leave it not leave!

They could still be involved PC, people can be very good at hiding these things!

Anyway, for whatever reason you manager is not willing to do anything about this so i don't think you will do yourself any favours with her by pushing it further.

Does she feel a bit intimidated by him so that is why she won't deal with the situation?

I completely agree with you, the situation is clearly not fair but just not sure what you can do about it as your manager is so obviously unwilling to confront the situation.

Ask the comany for flesable working time between 8am and 6pm as this one collegue gets this flexable working arrangment they need to supply it for all the staff

though seriously we have flexi time and it menas that you can get into work as late as 10am and not be "late" as you can work till 4.30 or through to 6pm and within 4 weeks you can carry around 12 hours over to the next month but not be under more than 4 hours

it means you can leave at 4.30 to get to a gp appointment and it means that you are not late if you are stuck in traffic

In my last job my collegue was sent home as the rules were more than 3 minutes late and you went home unpaid that day - only ever happend once in 10 years apparently as noone could afford the day off you mad sure you were on time or ten minutes early.

I certainly don't think you are wrong to feel aggrieved about this, but when presenting to your boss the only issue which is of any concern is the fact that you have to pick up the slack.

From now on keep a record of the number of calls and queries you have to handle between the hours of 9.00 am and when this person arrives. Now either you will find that you are exaggerating the situation in your own mind, in which case then it's time to forget about it and concentrate on your own working hours, or if you genuinely are taking a number of calls for this person then present the evidence to your boss to show how it prevents you from completing your own work.

I have just started working again after a year on Mat leave. I live at least an hours drive from work. I am full time & my son goes to nursery.
I've only done 4 days so far & it's awful, traffic has been horendous so I only get to see him for a couple of hours a day & I'm already leaving early. He appears to like nursery but is so tired when home that he's irritable for the time I do see him. He's off his food at home cause he's only having bland food there due to allergies. It's so horrible not seeing him I just don't know what to do.
Work did offer 4 days, should I take this afterall if offer is still open?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Sorry added by mistake

It's slightly more complicated in that we essentially share a workload - we have mirrored jobs, so it's not easy to show it's preventing me from completing 'my' work.

Unfortunately flexitime is not available because we need people in the building between certain hours. Without going into too many (identifying) details, patients need to be sorted and don't like waiting.
B also has issues with getting up in the morning but not I still don't think they're together. They are so not each others types.

DancingHippo - yes I think you are right B does feel somewhat intimated by A, they have previously worked together elsewhere and apparently A made her cry, amongst other things . I am not intimated by A which he knows.

I've brought it up, B has said she'll raise a change in start time so we'll see what happens. In the meantime I am practicing (a) leaving on time (b) trying not to give

Unfortunately flexitime is not available because we need people in the building between certain hours.

We have to have people in the building for certain hours - but we still have flexi time and one person is delegated on a rota to be int he building first and last one day each week - so between 5 people they have to be in the building at 8.30am and then another 2 people are rotaed for 9am - the rest can come and go as they please

the next week it changes which people are rotad on to do the between hours

this means though that the onus isn't always on one or two particular people to be in the building at a certain time and shares the work load

It is the same one person to lock up - so agian the nus is only for one week

depending on staff levels - but it does share out and you don't get one person always coming in late or going home early