Just finished jury service on terrible DV / rape case

[TheMoistWorldOfSeptimusQuench]

And we managed to convict on only 7 of 17 counts of rape and sexual assualt.

This is "good enough" in that he will serve a (probably quite lengthy) custodial sentence. In fact the judge said that he was considering an 'indefinite sentence'.

The psych report (that we heard after the verdict had been delivered) confirmed that he is a "very dangerous man", who probably won't respond to therapy (because he can't cope with anyone directing him - whole of the evidence pointed to him being a total control freak who managed every move his girlfriends attempted to make).

My question is this: This was an extreme case, with piles of evidence pointing to a guilty verdict. But still we could only convict on a minority of the counts. Seeing what this man's victims went through, how lives have been destroyed, how horrific it was for them just to get this to court, how even then, some people still didn't believe them, and of course, knowing how few rape cases even get to court - how could the legal system improve on its dealings with these crimes? Do we need some kind of exceptions to the usual rules to deal with these cases? What the hell can the legal system do?

Because after this experience, however traumatic the experience, I really don't think I would put myself through it.

And that's terrible isn't it?

Do you honestly think that the 35% of withdrawn cases were false allegations Captain?

Do you not consider the possibility that after having gone through the humiliation of having to describe the rape to the police and lawyer, the victim realises that having to do that in open court being watched by people who are pre-disposed to think she's a liar and being asked questions about her previous sexual experience, is something she simply can't face?

As for jailing women for false allegations - all that will happen is that women who are raped are even less likely to come forward as as well as being disbelieved and unable to get a conviction, they know that they will be the ones sent to prison for daring to complain that they are raped.

The recent spate of rape threads in this section, has made me acutely aware that if any of my male neighbours decided to rape me, there's very little I can do about it. It's actually made me a bit scared.

Me too, HerBea.

Also if you had to jail everyone whose report of a crime failed to lead to a conviction, it would be ridiculous. You would have to jail someone at the end of every serious court case. It's hardly the victim's fault if the prosecution failed to make their case. The victim can't interview suspects or collect forensic evidence. It extremely hard to "prove" someone was lying (unless they come out and admit it).

Am I going mad - how can there be a 58% conviction rate for rape, yet only 7% of cases end without a conviction?

"the figure of 58% for convictions in court...the 7% of cases which come to court but do not result in conviction"

I would make that 42% of cases not resulting in a conviction - going on your crazy logic we'll pretend that means the person was falsely accusing. Add that to the 35% who withdraw their allegation after talking to police - I'm pretending with you again that that means they were lying initially rather than being put off by any number of things, some of which were mentioned above.

That makes 77% (I know, I know, it doesn't make sense, but nor does this whole theory) - you think 77% of allegations are false?

My student DD2 was accosted and anally raped by a stranger while walking home one night. She was too petrified to struggle so no external injuries. THe CPS prosecuted but in court he said that she approached him asking him for sex and he had reluctantly agreed. He was acquitted. She won't go out at night now. I cry when I think about it.

Forgot to say. My DD2 says that now she will NEVER advise anyone to report a rape. Nor will I.

Oh my good god nancy that is awful. Your poor poor DD.

The injustice is quite something isn't it.

Nancy, that is so so dreadful for your DD, and for you, and for all the women who are attacked by vicious bastards. How did the jury manage to believe such a pile of bollocks? :(

How is she doing now?

I have no idea ElephantAndMiasmas.
I know that when she reported it she said that a man forced her to have sex, rather than using the word 'rape'. A lot was made of this in court. I suspect she wasn't sure whether buggary was included in the rape definition. I can't praise the police force highly enough for their sensitivity and support, which is ongoing. Unfortunately I think there is more to this case but better not go there in this forum. Meanwhile my DD2 feels frightened, ashamed and mistrusting of men and I'm far too protective of an adult child who should be living an independent life.

Poor DD, has she had help from rape crisis or anyone? Two of my good friends have had sisters go through this, and both have now started living independently again after a period of time when they just needed looking after. Is she still studying?

I'm not sure if this would be a good thing for you or her, but there are Reclaim the Night marches in London and some other cities where women (many of whom have been through similar) walk together to protest the lack of safety on the streets.

A lady came out of her house and joined in last year in honour of her DD who was recovering in hospital from an attack. :(

oh Nancy, your poor dd

I can't believe the crap they will believe from rapists. I think it is the porn culture that has led them to believe a perfectly ordinary woman would suddenly accost a random stranger and ask him for sex .
I'm sorry she feels ashamed. She has done NOTHING to be ashamed of and she was so brave to report it and go through the whole trial - people like her are heroines IMO.

Yes, it beggers belief. His story was like a male porn fantasy and riddled with contradictions and lies, which were proven in court. However, we can take some comfort from the fact he was in prison awaiting trial for nearly a year. My DD's going back to her studies this year. She is being supported by Rape Crisis as well as the Sexual Assault Police Officer even now. I have sent her a link to the Reclaim the Night marches (thanks for that, ElephantsAndMiasmas)

people have said that juries are just desperately looking for an excuse to not convict in rape cases; whereas in other types of trial people have no trouble working out what is meant by 'reasonable doubt', when it's rape they interpret it as no tiny shadow of a possibility of doubt whatsoever.

so glad the police are being good. I find that very encouraging.

nancy19, I am so sorry to hear of your daughters experience. And how hideous to go through a court case and then he is acquitted.

Seth - I think you are right.

And people still wonder why women don't report rape/sexual assault (I speak as one of the non reporters).

Thanks to you all for your messages. They mean a lot.

Nancy, I'm so terribly sad to hear your DDs story. And so sorry for her. She's so brave.

It's disgusting that this kind of injustice is seen as the norm.

Even these "men" who excuse rapists, why would you want someone who has done that to be free on the streets? What if they meet your daughter / wife? Or would they be asking for it too?