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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

being called stubborn when i assert myself.

20 replies

booyhoo · 29/06/2010 17:29

not sure if this is really a feminism thing but here goes.

i have always been labelled as 'headstrong' or 'strongwilled'. it was always my mum who said it, agreed by my dad and now my OH seems to find it, aswell as 'stubborn' the most fitting descriptions of my personality. my mum interestingly has always incouraged independance, and assertiveness. always encouraged us to say our piece and not to allow others to walk over us, yet i feel when she uses these words to describe me, she is infact criticising me. infact i know she is because most recently i have only heard her use them when talking to OH about how i expect him to do his fair share in the house, they have a little joke about it and my mum sympathises with him and tells my dad (who does nothing in the house despite both of them working full time) that he doesn't know how lucky he is, he could have ended up with a woman like me!!

in the past i have let it go, and i have checked my own behaviour and reasoning to see if it is me that has the problem and i really dont think it is. i think my mother is a martyr to her family. i think OH's mother is a martyr to her family and i think teh expectation is that i too will be a martyr to mine. but i simply will not. i see absoloutely no reason why a grown man should be cared for like a child, having his meals cooked, his washing done and his house cleaned for him just because he chooses to live with a woman. i am getting increasingly frustrated with both OH and my parents whenever the topic is brought up and OH makes out how tough he gets it. i just dont know how to vocalise my feelings to let them see how they are being.

OP posts:
wastingaway · 29/06/2010 17:35

Yes, that's out of order.

How about next time this comes up, turn it back to them - 'Do you think you deserve more free time than me?' or 'Do you think I should look after you?'

Oh i don't know, I find it so hard to challenge this shit too.

booyhoo · 29/06/2010 17:38

i know when it is happening that it is wrong and i should say something very clever but i lose confidence in my own convictions when i am faced with the 3 of them. they already think i am vocal enough so i always think they will just roll their eyes and i will be 'proving their point'.

OP posts:
wastingaway · 29/06/2010 17:44

Oh that's so frustrating. Grrr.....

booyhoo · 29/06/2010 17:45

it helps to know that it is their problem, not mine, but it doesn't help with the actual issue of getting OH to do his fair share.

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ImSoNotTelling · 29/06/2010 17:55

Just don't rise to it? Don;t have the conversation? You are who you are and your family is organised the way it is organised and it's not up for discussion. If they start talking about it just ignore/change the subject/go and make a cup of tea/laugh/something.

The thing is that your mum and OH obviously (I hope!) love you and they probably see it as gentle ribbing, and as you are so independent and self assured and "headstrong" they don't know that they are upsetting you IYSWIM.

I agree with you that it is a good thing that you are not allowing yourself to become a slave to the housework etc.

Chin up and keep at it

Unless I have misread things are they are genuinely having a go at you, including your OH?

booyhoo · 29/06/2010 18:01

no it isn't a nasty thing, it is as you say ribbing, however, it only serves to back OH up when he decides he prefers to be lifted and laid. he will say things like "even your mum agrees with me".

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happysmiley · 29/06/2010 18:03

Could you have a gentle word with your mum and explain your point of view? I'm sure that if it was pointed out to her in black and white how unfair it is of your OH to expect you to look after him like a child she would try not to comment and back him up when he does this. You never know, when she sees what she's doing, she may even be inclined to be more supportive of you when you ask him to do his fair share.

ImSoNotTelling · 29/06/2010 18:05

Well my mum always prefixes my DHs name with "poor". As if being married to me is the most awful fate she can possibly imagine befalling any man!

It's just mums for you

Your OH shouldn't be behaving like that, whatever being "lifted and laid" is

Prolesworth · 29/06/2010 18:07

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Prolesworth · 29/06/2010 18:08

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booyhoo · 29/06/2010 18:14

sorry, it must just be a local phrase. i grew up with my mum giving off about lifting and laying for my dad. it means doing all for him, kifting up his mess and laying down his meals, clean washing etc,

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booyhoo · 29/06/2010 18:20

lifting up his mess.

tbh i dont think it would make any difference if i told my mum how it makes me feel. it is totally normal in her family/peers/friendship circle that women cook, clean and do all the children based stuff that she would say, and has said, "it's just easier to get on with it." to her that is part of a woman's lot, part of the 'job description' if you like.

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ImSoNotTelling · 29/06/2010 18:45

The problem here though is your OH surely?

He should not be kicking off about what he thinks you ought to be doing for him, and using your mum (a woman of a different generation in a very traditional set-up) as an argument for his POV.

Does he do it a lot/what does he say?

cyteen · 29/06/2010 18:48

Him: 'even your mum agrees with me'

You: 'well, you're married to me, not her, so get back in the kitchen and finish the washing up.'

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 29/06/2010 18:56

What if you had a quiet word with your mum and said, don't you want something different for me? Don't you want something different for your granddaughters? (if she has them)? Or tell her that you want your DS(s) to grow up independent men who can look after themselves and don't have to lean or you or their wives to do things for them.

Agree that your OH sounds like he's being a pain though. It's one of those hilarious "jokes" that isn't a joke, it's what he really thinks. How about making him look stupid? "Looks like you were born about 50 years too late" Or "Why don't you go down to [local old people's home]? I hear there are some ladies down there who agree with you"

catinthehat2 · 29/06/2010 18:58

If it is just general good humoured ribbing, you could join in?

If you are sure they all think the world of you, next time, say "Oh yes indeedy, DH is very very lucky to have me" and change the subject. And one would hope that is the end of the conversation.

If it's not so friendly, then go with the other suggestions.

But don't forget they could well be secretly rather proud of you for sticking out and saying what you think.

Also, in your writing, remember "I" not "i". You are allowed to be yourself and be confident you know.

HerBeatitude · 29/06/2010 19:46

I would ask your DH to put your mum right when she does this.

Sit down with him and tell him how much it upsets you to hear him express a sense of entitlement that you skivvy for him and explain that you thought he valued you more than that. When he agrees he does (when, notice, not if ) ask him to stop your mother from undermining your relationship by telling her in no uncertain terms that he's a grown man and doesn't expect the woman he loves to be his skivvy. Tell him how proud of him you'll be if he does that.

It's really not on for men to go along with all this shit, I would actually feel very angry with any man who had this sort of entitled feeling about me. Your mum is just a PITA about this, but when your man is agreeing, that's disrespectful and quite painful IMO.

HerBeatitude · 29/06/2010 19:48

I would also remind him that statistically, the more housework men do, the more sex they get.

In fact, I might just say that to my mother as well: "well, he doesn't feel that hard done by, the reason he does his fair share of housework is because he gets his fair share of sex. And raunchy dirty sex as well Mum, d'you want a blow by blow account?"

That should shut her up forever.

booyhoo · 30/06/2010 00:05

herbeatitude that is a good idea.

i do agree OH is the problem, we have had countless discussions about why i will not be a servant to him and he agrees when we talk about it, it just seems that when we are with my mum and something would come up in conversation, cooking for example. like this weekend mum said sarcastically, "i am sure X loves coming home to a chip shop dinner." i replied that he knew where the oven was if he had any problem with it, i cook all week for me and the dcs" and she laughed and rolled her eyes as if to say, the poor man. he goes along with this sort of thing because as a family we do like to rib each other and he knows it is something that does annoy me so he gets a rise out of me.

I'm going to have to tell him that i dont like it. i have printed off some of those inspirational feminist quotes from the other thread and i am going to put them up in the house to keep my confidence up on this.

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MrsSawdust · 30/06/2010 00:24

Hmm, this reminds me of something my dh sometimes says to me in the heat of an argument ... "Your dad warned me you were a stubborn one." Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Makes me feel like they think of me as a naughty little girl. Grr.

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