Sexism and Racism - comparable?

[msrisotto]

What the title says really. I have compared some facets of sexism to racism before (on a different forum) and have been shouted down with disgust as the two are not comparable and it is offensive to compare them at all. Do you agree?

I happened to be thinking about weddings and the giving away of the bride and comparing it to slavery of black people back in the day as it is akin to owning people. Was I morally wrong?

I remember at about the age of 14 being shocked when I realised that black men could be sexist. Until then I assumed they just wouldn't be. I just assumed they had a consciousness about them and understood what it was like to be oppressed, and were able to identify with the chains that come with being associated with a slave class.
Then I found that in lots of cultures around the world, and in Western countries too, that black men were sexist.
It blew me away.
I realised that men see themselves as men first and foremost, and women will always be 'the other'.

No, the point I was making is that gender differences are not as drastic or binary as you/society are making out. They're forced, hence the awful pinkification of girls toys and stuff - it's like social conditioning.

Girls do not naturally prefer pink and women are not naturally better at cleaning/childcare etc etc

Sexism is wrong because binary genders are not naturally occurring and genders are not naturally fundamentally different.

You're right - people are different, but not based on their (socially defined) "gender".

SDG, sorry I thought that from the context it was obvious that I was talking about the trans atlantic slave trade, not slavery in general.

Having the contents of this thread whirling around in the back of my mind for a few days got me thinking about the differences between anti-sexist and anti-racist campaigning, and the successes and failures of both.

I am a white woman with very little personal experience of racism but plenty of experience of misogyny and anti-feminist sentiment. I mention that to let others understand that I am at the earlier stages of trying to improve my awareness of racism issues, so apologies for any oversimplification. I posted earlier in the thread but fear I was hopelessly naive on the racism issues.

It strikes me as very significant that, although racism and sexism are both really bad problems in society, society's reaction has been different. Anti-racists seem to have been more effective in getting the majority of the public to believe that racism is a bad thing despite the non-white population of the UK being very much a minority. For example, non-white people made up only 9.1% of the UK population at the 2001 census. I couldn?t even find the percentage of females in the UK at the 2001 census! I think that tells it?s own story. A UK Government 2001 non-census estimate for England and Wales estimated 51.1% of the population of those two countries were female.

I hope feminism can learn some tips and tricks from anti-racists to help improve the situation for women. What have anti-racism activists done to achieve their success for a small minority of the population that anti-sexism activists have not been able to achieve for the majority of the population? Is it something to do with minorities? More guilt/shame perhaps? Has any/more progress come for women when women have been percieved as a minority, which we are not in reality? Should feminists play the "minority" card more often when lobbying those in power?

SweetDreamerGirl

You might be interested in the work of the The Combahee River Collective.

This is all very interesting stuff. I don't have anything useful to add though.

I remember discussing this with a coloured (his description) male back in sixth form. I mentioned that it took me ages to get teachers to realise that I was bright at science and maths as I was female (and small and young looking), how I hated being written off before people got to know me and whether he struggled with peoples misconceptions because of his colour. I immediately got into a heated argument about how I couldn't know/wasn't allowed to feel (victimised isn't the right word but can't think of the correct one ) against and how dare I draw comparisons to racism. Followed by have I experienced X, Y and Z and countered with etc. etc. All the other females just sat there in awkard silence (he was the only male in the room). IMO he was a sexist as well.

Ever since I've always been to scared to make/skirt anywhere near the comparison again.