Why so many female critics of feminism?

[SweetDreamerGirl]

Are female critics against the entire concept of feminism or are they mainly against specific details?

I suspect that some of the anti-feminism-as-a-concept women have bought into the myth that feminists are trying to steal society from men, castrating men into oblivion. Stealing is bad and women should not do such a bad thing. After all, that would be so un-ladylike and un-feminine.

What motivates such a women to support her own discrimination/oppression? They seem determined to stick up for the rights of men who are not currently oppressed but whom they assume would become oppressed in a feminist people-centred (i.e. female AND male-friendly) world. They seem to expect feminism to contiue to make the mistakes of the patriarchal past, with dominance of one group over the other, but they lack evidence for that assertion. Perhaps they also mistakenly equate feminism with lesbianism with all the homophobia that entails? Personally, I equate feminism more with not wanting to be a doormat.

One problem I have with women dismissing feminism-as-a-whole is that it implies to me that men are seen as the legitimate owners of society in the first place. I challenge that and think men do not have legitimate ownership of the "man's world" that we find ourselves inhabiting.

I have respect for some women who are against specific "policy details" of feminism - it's a fair political/operational difference of opinion. Perhaps these women are not actually anti-feminist, merely unwilling to call themselves feminists.

"Feminism can often seem opposed to women displaying their sexuality"

at that.

Feminism has been at the forefront of fighting for women to be able to express their sexuality. Most men and women didn't know about female orgasm prior to feminism - it certainly wasn't something discussed in public.

It's not feminism which opposes women displaying their sexuality; it's patriarchy. On one hand we're all supposed to be under 25, thin, and dressed like hookers and otoh if we do, we're called sluts, whores, slappers, slags etc. because we're er.. displaying our sexuality. It's not feminists who call women sluts for wearing mini-skirts, or for shagging as many men as they want.

Patriarchy is very happy for some women to display their sexuality some of the time on its terms - but feminism has always been about liberating ALL women so that they can own their sexuality on their own terms.

feminists are people too.

feminists are not a separate species, with all the same drives and instincts as each other. On the subject of sex, many femisit women believe that i am somehow subjegated and not truly feminist if I choose to roleplay a subservient part in bed with my partner, or if I choose to shave off all my pubic hair.

I think the operative word there is choose.

Why? Because the onus of feminism is on women to do something. And because of the way our society has been structured for some long, women have been allowed to be passive and non-confrontational. And let's face it - life is easier that way

By the way, my post above didn't mean to single out Christianity. It's just I live in a country where almost all religious discourse is Christian so it was the example that popped to mind.

Orm makes a good point.

With rights come responsibilities. if you want the right to equal treatment on the washing up and cooking front, you have to bear the responsibility of half the shelf making and l;awn mowing.

And myself, I'd rather do the pots.

Sorry to SGB if she reads this for citing her as an example of a woman who is open about her sexuality, hope you don't mind if you read this.

herbeautitde excellent post

If older women for eg choose to show that they are sexual beings but do not comform to the correct image of what that should look like, they are ridiculed. What else are comments like "mutton dressed as lamb"?

I feel I have hijacked this discussion a bit, and will start a new thread at some point.

No, of course not, that's what i said, isn't it? I just said that my preferring to wash up rather than put up shelves means that women should be raped every time they leave the house and i don't care about that ....

oh hold on, actually, that's not remotely what I said or even fucking implied.

I merely answered the question about why so many women are reluctant to place themselves as feminists. It's because many women prefer their role as it is that what they imagine would happen if they were truly equal.

I answered this question that the OP asked and, most noticebly, did not mention rape in any context...

foreverastudent "Also every rapist, murderer, abuser, mysogynist is some mother's son. Whose side are they on then?"

Now, I would have to take issue with you on that. Some murderers, abusers etc are some mother's daughter. I know you probably didn't mean to but you appeared to be saying that all bad people are men which is a form of discrimination in itself and I do think that perhaps in fighting for womens rights sometimes we perhaps do come across as being against all men, when in fact it is oppressive men we are against. You don't need to fight the good men.

I think some women like to take up a traditonal role as wife, home-maker and mother and they wrongly perceive feminism as an attempt to threaten that role, when it is in fact an attempt to challenge the perception that it is the only valid role for women.

MillyR "The second problem is SAHMs, who feel that many feminists judge them"

I think you might be projecting your own issues a tad here.

I clearly have dibs on being one of the rantiest, most man-hating feminist on mumsnet.
I'm a SAHM

No ISNT, I was writing about the views I often see on MN championed by so called feminists. I didn't say any of those ideas were feminist or had much to do with feminism, but they are frequently banded about as if feminism means man hating.

colditz
That equal rights mean equal responsibilites sounds like exactly the kind of thing a non-feminist man would say.
We don't need to ask or beg men for equal rights, because that is what you are implying.
Girl and BOy babies are born equal.

But we were not born the same

To ignore and trivialise women's contribution the human race of pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding and to say that women should pretend these don't exist is to join the patriarchy yourselves.

Ask yourself:
Why is it that, considering men are stronger, that women are the ones who have traditionally carried water from the stream for cooking and cleaning? WOmen have always done the heavy, physical labour for the human race. Men never stepped in to help them or consider that it was their job.

Ask yourself:
Why should women pretendalong with men that what women do is in any way similar or "equal" to what men do. THey create life, and they should be respected for their work.

THey are not.
THey are told that if they want to be treated with respect they have to be one of the boys.

This thinking is anti-woman and anti-feminist.

Nope....culprits a plenty all over MN!

The image of feminism and the reality of feminism are different things.
Given that no one is obliged to become involved in, or learn, or care about anything, a lot of people see the man-hating ranty image, shrug and say that's not for me.
Most women don't hate men. They marry them and give birth to them. If the movement was called Equalism or summat like that I believe more women would be attracted, it would be the default setting.

So the image needs to be addressed.

Sakura, I am not projecting my own issues. I am not a SAHM. I simply have heard and read many SAHM feel this way.

The OP was asking why some women are critics of feminism, and I am suggesting why. It does not mean that I personally feel that way.

Equalism is a meaningless name. It could be applied to the struggle for any minority trying to gain rights. If feminists used that term they would be criticised by every other social justice campaign.

Perhaps something that addresses what feminism is against as opposed to an easily misinterpreted name would be good. Anti Patriarchal movement?

Good idea, posieparker, but what's in a name?

They had to change it from WOmen's LIberation because that was used in a derogatory way (Libbers)

Now 'feminist' is used in a derogatory way

It doesn't matter how many times we change it