Can we do anything about this?

[tethersend]

Knowing the power of MN, I am sick of walking past this poster every day, and wonder if there is anything we can do about it?

Or is it just me?

Do you honestly think rapists don't KNOW that rape is unaccetable in society?

People know basic right from wrong, of course they do.....stop focussing on the victim's behaviour as if it suggests they are the reason the act took place.

Um - when exactly did I focus on the victims behaviour?

The ad does silly...that is what we've been talking about

I think rapists often don't admit they are rapists, actually - that's what all that 'she was asking for it' stuff is about: convincing themselves that they had the right to do what they did.

a poster campaign aimed at men might actually help.

OK, so I stand by my assertion that it is sensible to educate women about how they can get home safely. Because you can't leglislate for rapists. And rapists don't care about what is acceptable in society.

And no posters in the world are going to convince a rapist.

I disagree with you portofino

Most rapists don't believe they are guilty of rape. They are normal men who convince themselves that the sex was consensual or at the very worst, a little "persuasive" and they are as horrified and disgusted by the rare rapist who jumps out of the shadows as the rest of us are.

They don't associate their coercive behaviour with the rare stranger-rape that is the standard image of rape in our society.

exactly HB.

you could, actually, imagine a poster that killed two birds with one stone - it could primarily remind men that a woman getting into your car drunk and wearing a short skirt does not mean you get to have sex with her, while thus subtly making women aware that sometimes men think it does hence the risk.

Really?

I agree with HB that MOST rapists aren't the ones that hide in the bushes (or in unlicenced minicabs for that matter) and indeed know the women involved. Statistics back that up.

WEll, exactly Portofino - so why don't we issue safety guidelines along the lines of 'never be alone with a man' as they might be one of those dodgy sorts who rape you? No, we don't because we just want to live our lives without fear. Sadly, I think all of us have personal experience of rape or know someone who has - and mostly not by evil strangers as you say.

The more I think about it, the more it annoys me. This idea that men are either 'evil rapists' who are not even responsible for their behaviour because they are so far gone - so it's up to us to stop them . Or that they are so governed by their impulses, that if a woman is alluring, they can't really be expected to stop. WE're not in a film, people are not 'baddies' we have to fight - they are PEOPLE who have learned that it's ok to do xyz.

Portofino, really, I don;'t blame you for your attitude because it is what we have grown up to expect. And of course, there is an element of taking risk. But EVEN IF WE DO take a risk, we should not expect to be attacked/raped. AS if it was a passive activity (!) that just 'happened' to us because of what we did or didn't do.

I am afraid I am with Dittany on this one - MEN can stop rape. Most men DO.

Are the people who are suggesting that the safety check-lists create an unnecessary climate of fear saying that women should ignore them and walk alone late at night, leave their drinks unattended etc? Or are they saying that women should still not do these things, but they might perhaps be unaware that they shouldn't because of the lack of awareness campaigns? Or that they don't object to the message, merely the way it's delivered (clearly objectionable in this case, but what about others)?

I'm a bit confused, because I can see how these campaigns are creating an atmosphere which is limiting for women, but I'm not sure what the solution is.

So all issues about campaigns and blame etc aside, is there something we can do about this ad? I mean, surely there's someone we can go to and say, "Hey, it's actually not okay that you've created an advert with the purpose of profitting from a fear of rape"? After all, it's not a campaign, it's an advert. It would be one thing if it was a misguided attempt at raising awareness of personal safety (which would be bad enough), but it's not. It's for a profit.

We could write to Transport For London customer Services

TfL Customer Relations
Tel: 020 7222 5600 and ask to be put through to TfL Customer Relations
Fax: 020 3054 5307
Email: [email protected]
Post: 4th Floor, Zone Y4, 14 Pier Walk, North Greenwich, London SE10 0ES

I also like the idea of sticking stickers onto the posters to redirect the message, if anyone has a short and catchy way to sum up our argument.

A punchier way of saying "Would you blame a man for getting mugged? Dont blame the victim! Blame the predator posing as a pretend mini-cab driver!"

Make a complaint more about taxis than advertising) online:

www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/contact/pco/general.aspx

Thanks! I'm going to write to the TFL and check out that link as well. Can we get lots of people to write? It would be more effective if it were more than just one person having a moan.

Just got back to the thread... thanks for links SkaterGrrrl. I'm so glad it's not just me.

"I don't know any women who are not afraid of getting raped."

I am not and never have been afraid of being raped , I haven't ever changed my life or modified my behaviour, because I don't see myself as some kind of weak and vulnerable victim.
I have walked home alone late at night both as a teenager and as a mature woman.
Neither am I afraid for the safety of my 20 year old daughter.

Yet again Dittany , you are speaking for all womankind, I admire your conviction but it doesn't make you right 100% of the time.

At the moment the posters wouldn't work because everything is leaning so in favour of rapists. The sense of entitlement and the objectification of women is such that to some, that's what were here for. I think the posters might bring some level of respect into focus. It's not about changing the minds of individual rapists at the moment, we're too far gone as a society for that. It's about changing the attitudes of society as a whole (you know, the people who don't rape but think a drunk girl in a mini skirt os tantamount to a come on). Once society kind of realises that rape isn't the fault of the woman but the reponsibility of the male then rape will decline.

"I don't see myself as some kind of weak and vulnerable victim"

Neither did I, but I became one when I was raped. I was vulnerable and I was physically weaker than my rapist. How I saw myself became irrelevant.

I don't see myself as weak or vulnerable either, and I have walked home alone at night on a fairly frequent basis. That nothing bad has happened to me at those times is luck really (indeed it has been my dh who has been unlucky enough to be mugged, and he is a very big guy who prior to the mugging certainly didn't feel particularly vulnerable).

All the women that I know who have been raped were raped in "safe" situations when they did not know that they were vulnerable.

I think that people do need to be alerted to the fact that getting into a car with just anyone is probably a really bad idea even if it is cheap, but I do agree it should that if shock tactics are the way to go then demonising the unlicensed cab driver is more appropriate.

It's the way it is positioned - the abject terror of the Woman. The expression on her face with the text just makes a really disturbing statement. I can't express it succinctly as I'd like but I totally agree the ad should have foregrounded the fact that some rapist scumbags parade as cabdrivers and to be on guard when accepting a lift.

Best to book in advance from someone you have used before. But even these measures are not a guarantee, these "men" go to extreme lengths.

I'm finding most of the replies here totally knee-jerk and disproportionate, and the same with the original post from tethersend.

If we set out some known facts here:

1. A significantly higher proportion of rape victims are women rather than men
2. Some of these female rape victims are raped when they take unlicensed minicabs
3. It logically follows that reducing the number of women who take unlicensed mini cabs would reduce the number of women raped as a result of taking unlicensed minicabs
4. This poster will educate both men AND women as to the problem of unlicensed minicabs (I for one had never considered the idea until I saw the poster) and provides them with a solution
5. This education and solution will reduce the number of women taking unlicensed minicabs
6. By combining 5 and 3 we can deduce that this poster therefore reduces the occurrence of rape
7. Rape is bad
8. Therefore, reducing the occurence of rape is good
9. Combine 8 and 5 and it is clearly shown that this poster is good

Q.E.D.