How do you model feminism/gender equality to your sons?

[Solo2]

Our sons of today are the men of tomorrow who will or will not perpetuate the myths about gender differences. I'm interested in finding out how other women model their feminist beliefs to their sons (I have no daughters) and hopefully guide them to becoming the kind of men we'd want our daughters to relate to?

I don't think I'm v good at this, despite being a single mother by choice who runs her own f/ t business, the household and the parenting entirely alone - therefore blending the traditional male/ father and female/mother roles all in one person, in my daily life.

As a parent, I run after my sons too much, catering to their needs and doing everything domestically, despite the fact that they recently turned 9 and in other cultures might be responsible for a lot more right now, than they are here.

I am regularly shocked by how much they've imbibed their genderist culture with beliefs such as, "Doctors are men, nurses are women"...."Dad's work, mums stay at home" - this despite having plenty of examples to the contrary around them.

However, the majority of families they see are STILL fairly biased towards men earning and working more than women, although lots of the mums they know, do work too outside the home.

Their media exposure also seems to confirm old stereotypes, so that whilst they can debate and reflect on those stereotypes, they still believe them, deep inside. For example, they know me to be a particularly physically strong woman, good with power tools, penknives, car maintenance etc. However, they still perceive this as unusual and different - whilst acceptable, as I'm their mother. They still see those types of things as traditionally male. They still perceive the girls at their school as a separate species, almost, to the boys.

Of course at home they don't have a male role model embodying brilliance at domestic tasks. They have only me. So this might be part of the problem. But I'm wondering how others on this MN Feminism topic proactively model their feminism to their sons and what more I can so to balance the continuing cultural beliefs outside the home?

I would say that I have always tried to promote equality and avoid gender stereotyping when my DS was growing up .Now at 15 years old though, the outside influences are too great - school, peers, media,etc. I find I am sometimes fighting a losing battle when I hear him make sweeping generalisations about gender.

ElephantsandMiasmas, that is a HUGE generalistion you made about all boy families! My boys love me to bits, help me out, and have even been known to thank me if I help them out

I have 4 boys, dh and I both work. Ds1 and ds2 are expected to help in the kitchen and to have it reasonably clean in the time between their arrival home from school and our arrival home from work. Dh is a bit of a sergeant major on this which is a huge help

I don't think it would even occur to them to think there was a job that a woman couldn't do or that a woman should always be a SAHM. I think they believe rightly that I am nmore intelligent than dh.

The only area where I fall down is my fear of spiders and daddy-long-legs which have to be physically removed from the bathroom by ds1 before I will go in.

comix, agree that some of this is routed in what children actually see, but some is routed in what children believe.

I remember having a ridiculous conversation with my mum when I was 3 or 4 about whether I could be doctor when I grew up. It went along the lines of, "yes, I'd like to be a doctor, but I can't because I'm a girl, so I'll be a nurse instead".

My mother was suitably horrified and obviously tried to convince me I could be anything I wanted to be. She was particularly horrified because she was a doctor and she didn't understand where I'd got this ridiculous notion from. I still don't understand how I could have seen her example every day, but just never really believed it.

I know chipmonkey, it's just based on the families I know, I find it very weird and uncomfortable though! I'm sure it has a huge amount to do with the dynamic between the parents in the first place, being made worse by the dad (if around) being lumped in as "one of the boys" and looked after in the same way. Sounds like things are lovely in your house though, probably because you and your DH have a good balance between you to base the family on.

Meant also to say that because boys tend to grow up more slowly than girls, I see a lot of boys being spared work because "it takes them forever" or "they'd make a mess of it". I can completely see why it's easier to do this, but when possible I think it's important for boys to be allowed to do things at their own pace, but to just get them done. I am having to re-educate my brother like this at the moment - when he comes to stay with me I just leave him to spend 3 hours cooking if that's what it takes. With more confidence he gets quicker.

Oh dear, I don't know if things are always "lovely" either! There is a fair amount of needless wrestling, IMO! Ds1 has asked if he can start cooking but I don't really have time to teach him at the moment. But I suspect that would be the same if I had a dd. Ironically, I do sometimes feel that if I were a SAHM, I would have more time to domesticate them. But I don't run around picking up after them. I barely pick up after myself!

Haven't read this thread yet so apologies if I reinvent the wheel with my post.

Now that my DS is 13 we can talk about how women are portrayed in the media etc. I know he has seen some porn and this was an opportunity to talk to him about the difference between porn sex and real sex, and to tell him about the likeliest histories behind the 'actresses' (likelihood that they were abused, currently take drugs, are being pimped etc).

I asked him this little puzzle the other day - you might have already heard it.

A man rushes into the emergency room with his young son, who has suffered a terrible accident. As the doors are opened into surgery, the surgeon shouts, 'that's my son!' Why is this?

Like most people my son (who respects women honestly and hates racism and sexism) wondered if maybe the son had been adopted. He also wondered if the father was also the surgeon etc etc. Of course, the answer is that the surgeon is the boy's mother.

We then had a long discussion about sexism and how invisible it is, even to those of us who believe we are fair-minded.

Going to read thread now!

happysmiley I think my son illustrated your point about what children believe!

The cultural influence is so so strong.

I often talk to my friend about this and how we would bring up our sons.

"You have to have men and women around who model respectful behavior. I would love to raise my 2ds in an enviroment where there was no gender bias, but it's not possible to dictate others behavior"

Kathsmum I completely agree with this, when i was growing up before my parents divorced my dad was mostly a sahd and my mom went out to work, he was heavily domesticated and did household chores better than my mom did. My uncles (on both sides) also were like this. One of my gran's husbands just the same. I grew up thinking this was the norm. Until I met dh. I was completely baffled as to why he literally couldn't do anything. When we first me he'd go and buy a rotisserie chicken from asda and make some pasta and that was dinner or an omelette. He was brought up in a house where the women did everything. Since I have met him I have always contended it was a cultural thing. In the Caribbean, men are expected to be able to look after themselves and contribute to the household from an early age, whereas where my dh is from, the men aren't expected to do anything.

To counter this I expect I shall be domesticating my son from an early age. Even now at 5 he's expected to clean up after himself and as he gets older he will be given more and more responsibilities in the house, so that he doesn't just see it as "women's work". Also if dh doesn't help out (which I can't control) it's my job to make it known that I'm not happy. IF I just sit there and carry on without saying, your father should be doing this too, then surely I'd just be continuing the cycle as when ds gets married he will just expect the wife and kids to do everything for him.

"I've also noticed that boys are often "let off" tasks more than girls are, as less is expected of them in terms of concentration and 'domestic responsibility', for want of a better phrase. It's as if girls are expected to be helpful, but anything boys do is seen as an added extra for which everyone should be grateful."

ElephantsandMiasmas I was thinking this the other day, we were at the mil's and the wives and sister were helping here and there. My dh did a few things, literally he took some dishes into the kitchen and he was praised till heaven come. And I just kept looking completely shocked, like we did more, shit you did more but it was all about dh who had carried the heavy dishes. I think it's absolutely important to raise your ds' exactly as you raise your dd's in terms of house training and also education and career ambition.