How do you model feminism/gender equality to your sons?

[Solo2]

Our sons of today are the men of tomorrow who will or will not perpetuate the myths about gender differences. I'm interested in finding out how other women model their feminist beliefs to their sons (I have no daughters) and hopefully guide them to becoming the kind of men we'd want our daughters to relate to?

I don't think I'm v good at this, despite being a single mother by choice who runs her own f/ t business, the household and the parenting entirely alone - therefore blending the traditional male/ father and female/mother roles all in one person, in my daily life.

As a parent, I run after my sons too much, catering to their needs and doing everything domestically, despite the fact that they recently turned 9 and in other cultures might be responsible for a lot more right now, than they are here.

I am regularly shocked by how much they've imbibed their genderist culture with beliefs such as, "Doctors are men, nurses are women"...."Dad's work, mums stay at home" - this despite having plenty of examples to the contrary around them.

However, the majority of families they see are STILL fairly biased towards men earning and working more than women, although lots of the mums they know, do work too outside the home.

Their media exposure also seems to confirm old stereotypes, so that whilst they can debate and reflect on those stereotypes, they still believe them, deep inside. For example, they know me to be a particularly physically strong woman, good with power tools, penknives, car maintenance etc. However, they still perceive this as unusual and different - whilst acceptable, as I'm their mother. They still see those types of things as traditionally male. They still perceive the girls at their school as a separate species, almost, to the boys.

Of course at home they don't have a male role model embodying brilliance at domestic tasks. They have only me. So this might be part of the problem. But I'm wondering how others on this MN Feminism topic proactively model their feminism to their sons and what more I can so to balance the continuing cultural beliefs outside the home?

Ah, I was thinking of starting a thread like this, only slightly differently - I am expecting my first child in Sept, don't know what the sex is, but am aiming to bring up either a boy or a girl in line with my feminist principles. But a) how exactly do I do that, and b) will I succeed?

My thoughts at present are that if I have a boy I'll be keen for him to help in the kitchen and around the house, and if I have a girl I'd like her to learn skills like woodwork (DP is good at this, I enjoyed it at school but don't do all that much on it nowadays). Not very nuanced perhaps...

My main focus is simply to emphasise that everyone who lives in this house has to contribute to its running.

So you all pick up your own shit, don't expect someone else to do it for you.

I think this is just as important as all the outside role models as so many men appear to have an inbuilt assumption that it's simply not their job to pick up their socks/ wipe down the surfaces/ get out the vacuum.

Agree totally with HerBeatitude. It's a battle to keep asking/telling my 12 year old (not so much the 6year old yet) but you've got to keep at it. Definatly get them cooking too. Simple stuff but important I think

Useful thread. Something I worry about with ds (2yo). I thought we were doing pretty well in presenting non-genderised role models. But today on the train he asked who's driving. I said I didn't know. He said "man driving". I said "or could be a woman", reply: "no, man driving". I reminded him his friend's mum drives a train, but he insisted this train driver must be a man. He's 2!

So he's already absorbed that most of the train drivers he does see are male. He also tidies up, clears the table, enjoys cooking, etc. I guess it will get harder as he grows up! But how will that be enough to counteract everything else he will be exposed to?

It could be more a child vs parent thing about parents, me included, doing too much housework for the DCs and them doing little...

I think I've reached the essence of what I'm getting at here: whilst I think I largely embody feminist principles in my daily life and what I say to my sons (except they do nee dto help more in the house!), they are definitely picking up traditional stereotyping around them, despite being in a less than traditional school/social environment - ie many females they see work and some males they see do the pick up from school....BUT....infinitely more things they're exposed to out there are very traditional role models.

Is it enough for a key role model (ie me) in their lives to present a more gender equal model, if all around them they imbibe traditional stereotyped gender roles? How much is the culture and peer group more influential than the home environment?

You have to have men and women around who model respectful behavior. I would love to raise my 2ds in an enviroment where there was no gender bias, but it's not possible to dictate others behavior. I think you just have to expose your boys to great men and women as much as possible, and hope they follow by example.

Sadly, they will be exposed to sexism. You can only do your best to guide them in the right direction -- ime.

I think you need to talk to your children about the other role models they're seeing.

This is quite a difficult line to tread, because you are then in danger of criticising how other parents do things.

It's difficult to make it clear that you disapprove of the way G's mum runs around after her dad, without straying into judemental "nobody does it properly except us" territory.

I suppose I reluctantly am going to have to start watching Corrie again, or Eastenders, so that we can discuss the assumptions about how men and women are in the meejah. It's easier to condemn them outright and use them as a discussion subject, if their friends don't actually come for playdates!

I have a girl and a boy,and I expect the same from them with regard to what they do at home,and how they behave - actually DS is definately more help than (teenage)DD. DH is a good role model,I think.He does work more than I do for various reasons,but we split running the house,and they have always had days just with him,as I work on Saturdays.

Ds is very strong on "girls can't do X", "boys are best" at the moment,(he is 10),so we do talk a lot about what men and women can do,sometimes seriously,sometimes jokily.(Poor DS,he is stuck with me in the car on the school run,and we talk a lot )

Agree with the suggestions already made: talk about gender roles as seen all around us in the media and in other people's speech and behaviour, try to set a good example (difficult to live a sexism-free life when we live in a profoundly sexist culture, but we can try).

Sad to say it feels like a losing battle. But at least it sows the seeds of critical thinking in their minds, which - hopefully - they will draw on in their adult lives.

Funny I was just talking about this yesterday, no DC yet myself but I've often noticed how all-boy families end up treating their mums badly and acting like spoilt brats. Not that your DCs are like this I'm sure, but maybe it's something to do with the fact that the caring/housework/fetching and carrying/cooking is essentially being done by the woman (mum) for the men (kids). It's all too easy to extrapolate this out to how the world should be in general. What do you think?

I've also noticed that boys are often "let off" tasks more than girls are, as less is expected of them in terms of concentration and 'domestic responsibility', for want of a better phrase. It's as if girls are expected to be helpful, but anything boys do is seen as an added extra for which everyone should be grateful. (Easy to see how this continues into adulthood, sigh)

So in answer to your question, make sure your boys pull their weight INCLUDING doing things for other people. e.g. they don't just have to pick up their own socks, but also take on ironing for everyone (make sure that's including your clothes), cooking for everyone, cleaning the bathroom that everyone uses. They need to learn to do things for you as you do things for them.

As they get older obviously! But even when little try to get them to carry on e.g. making toast for everyone's breakfast. Girls are often encouraged to do things "to help mummy", but boys not so much.

I suspect what is modelled for them at home will have an influence on the way they then contribute in their home as adults - so for example if their father contributes equally to housework, and/or they are expected to do the same, that it the habit they take with them to their own families.

But the messages they get on gender roles outside their home life probably have a stronger influence on the development of their view of gender roles in society. I agree that talking about the constrasts with what happens at home and what is emphasised in society is a good way of bringing this into conscious thought and allowing debate.

I have an additional problem, in that my DS (10) isn't really interested in helping out with stuff, while DD (8) really is. She'll beg to help out in the kitchen, she'll come and help plant the vegetables/ weed them, she'll demand to use the vacuum cleaner. DS otoh couldn't give a toss. She will go mental when I tell him to use the vacuum cleaner as it's not fair, she wnats to blah blah...

To be perfectly honest, they are going to pick up stereotypical attitudes from society and media in general. There's a phase of child development that focuses very much on stereotypes for all sorts of things (look at a child's pictures: houses have chimneys, pigs are pink, clouds are white) and with such pervasive attitudes around they don't stand much chance of not picking up on gender stereotypes as well.

I think the most important thing is to give them the critical thinking skills and questioning mind to be able to recognise and challenge those stereotypes when they come out the other side of this phase, and to give them the practical skills and experience to ensure that they have no need to live up to them.

show them how to use the washing machine

Ds who is 3 told me the other day that I must like pink as I'm a girl - that got knocked on the head fairly quickly as did 'boys don't do ballet'. Specially as his cousin, aged 15, does ballet, tap and other dance/dramatic stuff

Dh and I do domestic jobs equally, are as likely to do DIY or drive and both work.

We do try and model stereotype challenging, and I really hope that DS will continue to enjoy doing all the things he does, even when others don't think its a 'boy' thing

Following this with interest as am pregnant with no 1 and determined to raise children who think critically about "normal" gender roles.

DH was raised by a single mum and is basically a dream come true, cooks, does housework, gardens and is respectful of women.

Must ask MIL how she did it!

DP was raised by a rather fierce mother who made him do all his washing from an early age and made him cook for himself in his teens. Well, she was doing her MA so she didn't have time.

MIL has 4 sisters, also strong characters and two sisters who take after Dp's mother. He also worked as a labourer for his builder dad every summer.

He is hardworking. He gets up and gives kids breakfast in the morning, cooks all weekend, has never asked me to iron anything and takes my slack housework standards in his stride. He is very supportive of me studying.

The point is, it's mothers who are important in all this. Don't run round after them.

My idea is to gradually get my twin sons to see that we are all contributory members of the household. In practice, I haven't done enough yet to model this and they don't have a father to model male domestic contribution. So what they get is 'slave' mother running around after them whilst they watch TV/ play on PCs or 'helpful mother' who makes their supper and packs school kit whilst they do homework. It's difficult to indicate to them that this is more because I'm a grown-up rather than because I'm a woman.

They will sometimes help if I push this and DS1 is more willing than DS2 who isn't ever willing. But it's not really become a routine/ normal daily thing yet.

But all around, I notice genderist messages coming at them. Even their gay male headmaster this morning was declaring in assembly that the little boys might want to emulate St George and "rescue damsels in distress from dragons", much to the other parents amusement and agreement!

Their school is newly co-ed but despite the philosophy of equality of genders and integration, the boys are still forced to do football and cricket and the girls allowed to do these as well as netball, rounders and gymnastics club! My twins would far rather do netball and rounders.

This is an academically selective, non-religious and progressive school....but if these examples are as such here, in other types of school, it must be even more genderist, I assume?

Many of the mothers work but perhaps just as many have given up brilliant careers to run around after their husbands and do eveything in the home. Just the other day, a friend mum told me that her husband didn't like it if she tried to make anything out of the further qualifications she's doing 'for fun' and had hated it when she'd worked as a doctor several years ago - much preferring her at home. She's probably cleverer than her husband yet assumes her role in life is to support his career and do 100% childcare/ domestic stuff.

I hadn't really paid enough attention to this kind of thing until reading more on this MN topic recently. I'd been assuming that we were all so much farther on and that my own embodiment of a woman who - whilst valuing and liking men, felt able to go it alone in every walk of life - from parenting to work to running a home, was part of the continuing progress towards gender equality.

But the more I look, the more I see that my own sons are steeped in a culture - from the local level to the national level - that is suffused with old fashioned and faulty stereotyping of genders.

I have no sons.

Gender equality in our home with the simple expedient of having DD's Daddy as a SAHD. My DD knows that men can be nurturing, can cook, clean and wash clothes. She also knows that women can go to work and earn the family money.

Stereotyping both is and isn't a negative thing, IMHO. A stereotype can be wrong and harmful but there's a reason for it coming to be a stereotype in the first place - because it has a grain of truth.

I think it's much more likely that kids pick up on stereotypes than that they pick up on probabilities. The stereotypes are going to be pretty pervasive; but do you actually see the person driving the train all that often, in real life?

absolutely agree cat. infusing daughters with the principals of equality is just as vital as sons.