Is porn rape?

[Koalacanth]

Some people think:

1: porn is prostitution

and

2: prostitution is rape

Putting these two together, porn is rape.

Is that reasonable, and do you agree with it?

I'm not talking about legal definitions, of course; though if it's true, then surely porn should be illegal.

No it's not rape in most cases the woman had agreed to make the content it's not rape for a man to then watch it I also don't think prostitution is rape I know people on here love to bang on about sex trafficking sure it happens but not as as often as the crazies on here think it does they can't bring themselves to think that maybe the woman chooses to it my friends a prostitute it's legal where I live and she does it for the money 😊

A version of rape if the filming was done without the woman’s consent.
Not rape if she was a consenting adult to the filming.
I agree with the previous poster, not all prostitution is rape. For some women it is a reasonable choice made after weighing up the pros and cons.

From what I understand a woman may have consented to taking part in filming but quite often when on set the sexual activity is not what she agreed to. And also if she is in pain - as apparently is quite usual - she is unable to stop what is happening. She cannot withdraw her consent even though that is what she wished to do because she is under pressure to continue.
So for me that is definitely rape.

She knows what is happening and going to so how is that rape.
Prositution is paod sex not enforced on someone.
Stupid post.

It is a very grey area for me. I have met a couple of “escorts” in my life and for them, it is a financial decision, pays very well and it’s a very conscious choice.
I have also worked with a charity that supports street prostitutes. Those women seemed to do it from desperation and fear, not choice.
Overall, I do not think you can “buy” consent.

I don't understand. What do you mean prostitution is not enforced on someone? Prostitution is very often forced on someone.

I’ve not met many prostitutes, and no porn stars as far as I can tell, but the prostitutes I met were in hospital having had dogs set on them, or horrific internal injuries from violent sex acts. I’m inclined to think it is rape. It’s hard to think of a job (outside of war) where one person inflicts so much physical suffering on another person. They seemed resigned to it, which was the saddest part.

I could think that the point is that porn could be rape. I’m not sure how the viewer can reasonably assure themselves that everyone involved was consenting and treated well.

Lots of sexual situations where you might think “everyone was consenting” later emerge as very problematic eg recent articles from women involved in the swinging scene due to coercive control from their partners.

Yes and they'd have heart attacks on here if they knew that...sometimes....the prostitute actually enjoys it if the client is attractive (read interviews about it)

No. A lot of prostitution is ethically equivalent to rape, because a lot of women are trafficked or coerced into it. But equally a lot of women exchange sex for money willingly and freely and I think it's nonsense to say that is any kind of rape. It's exactly the same with porn.

And do you think that happy, sexually satisfied , entirely consenting prostitution is a common state of affairs?

I’m sure lots of men paying to have sex tell themselves that the woman is enjoying it. But how can they reasonably assure themselves that the woman isn’t trafficked, in fear of her life, drugged, desperate or underage?

I’m sure that somewhere in the world there may be the odd woman cheerfully selling herself, but let’s not kid ourselves about the reality.

Not all porn, but certainly some, and you have no way to identify which.

Any sex to which a participant has not freely consented without coercion is rape.

Coercion can take many forns. The ones that are most common in the sex industry are to deliberately put a woman into a state of such vulnerability either through drug addiction or by trafficking somone from another country to where she has no power, no friehds or family, no passport or ID and no way to find out how to escape - and from this vulnerability either forcibly with violence or otherwise make them participate in prostitution. Some prostitutes may overtly appear to consent but it would take a significant amount of time with a psychologist to identify whether such consent is genuinely valid or is the result of years of coercive control. Others are fully conscious that they are not truely consenting but they feel they have no other option for survival. There is no way for any "customer" to know whether any woman is in one of these situations. The fact that this lack of knowledge is not enough to stop them makes every single one of them a rapist.

So yes by extension a vast number of porn videos are rape - and you can add to the prostitution scenarios any porn that is made by filming an act without consent or with lying to say the recording will stay private - pntaining consent by deception also invalidates consent.

Taking it out of a sexual context - imagine a scenario where you have the choice whether to pull or not pull a lever, the lever is attached to an ice-bucket-challenge apparatus with a woman underneath it. Let's say there are 10 such levers and 10 women and you are giveh the choice to pull one level or to choose not to. If half of the women have consented to being doused in icy water, and half are there against their will under threat of violence or other coercion is it ok to pull a lever? I would say that participating knowing there's a chance that you are thereby part of an abusive act makes you culpable. Does it become more or less ok if you will get something pleasurable as a reward if you choose to pull a lever? Does it become more or less ok to pull a lever if the statistical probability changes from 50:50?

Watching porn isn't rape, it's getting sexual satisfaction from watching an abused woman being raped (whether or not the scebario depicted appear to be that, the real woman is being raped, it's not "acting" in this context) getting off on the evidence and witness of a crime. It's disgusting and nauseating.

It depends on whether you believe that you can buy consent. If you think you can, then you can never see the issue. If you think you can’t then porn/prostitution is problematic at best, or indeed rape at worst.

👍👍

No doubt there is rape sometimes in porn but I don't think all porn is rape (or all prostitution).

Words matter. Porn is porn and rape is rape.
There is coercion and violence in the production of porn.
Rape may be part of the coercion and control involved in the production of porn.
Porn may be a template for rape.
Two different issues which are linked in many ways, but words matter.

The exception is child abuse images, where by definition the children involved can not have given consent.

“Legit” porn pays the actors so no it isn’t rape. I’m sure there is a lot of less legit porn around that is man films partners. It may or may not be rape depending on consent to the original act but the filming is probably coerced or not permitted. Not many stable, secure women want to be filmed is my guess.

This tell me you believe consent can be bought.
There is a grey area in which remuneration frequently coexists with coercion and restriction of choice.

the only way to find out would be to ask the persons involved how they feel about it.

You're absolutely right. I'm just another one of those "crazies"... the support work I used to do with women in the sex trade around sex trafficking is completely irrelevant. Especially compared to your enlightened understanding through having a prostitute "friend" (That's sarcasm by the way).

However much the chronically online wish to dismiss Mumsnetters as nowt more than middle class fish wives, there's a wealth of knowledge and experience from women in these subs and sometimes a stance comes from a (cue gasp sound) informed position.

A prostituted woman is paid to 'allow' a man/men to rape her. Prostitution is paid for rape. Pornography is degradation of women. The women who take part are often damaged, in abusive relationships, sexually abused as children, prostituted. Certainly, pornography is rape and men who watch it are watching rape - and some pornography is actual rape. All should be banned for it is wrecking lives and perverting sexuality so that kinks such as BDSM, anal sex, strangling etc are normalised as what a woman can expect from sex. It feeds into the trans cult as well, and the abuse of under age children and the abuse of women domestically. It also feeds into VAWG and sexual assault and rape in our homes and our streets from men who think they are entitled to sex and that women who won't give it deserve to have it taken by force.
'Choosing' to be a prostitute is no choice if you are poor, trafficked, an immigrant, have few skills. Such a 'choice' is not empowering but degrading and most prostituted women want to get out of being prostituted. Most make very little money, are drug-addicted and abused. And pornography feeds into this along with its message that men are entitled to sex.

All prostitution is rape. The woman does not consent. She is paid to be raped, pimped and coerced.

This reminds me of how Beria used to give the women & children he raped a bouquet of flowers, because it could be used to argue they had consented.

Those who watch porn create financial incentive for it, so if porn is rape, the watchers incentivise rape.

Porn may not always be rape, but it’s always exploitative. I’d love to see it banned, along with all forms of commodification of women.