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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Secondary schools - are any of these red flags for gender madness?

31 replies

GCburneraccount · Today 11:46

I've recently visited 8 state secondary schools in my city. Can anyone advise me if any of these things are red flags for gender madness having taken hold, or is this just normal in secondary these days?

My baseline is that none of these would have been allowed at the school I went to - but I'm very out of date! Things were certainly not great for gay kids back then and I hope this has changed for the better.

  • Every school had an LGBTQ club
  • A prominently displayed Stonewall poster 'trans people exist, get over it' (not in context of studying activism/advertising)
  • Specific toilets for 'all genders'
  • Activist/political flags like progress pride used in an activist context (rather than studying activism)
  • Wall displays encouraging activism - e.g. on climate/green issues, LGBT issues, race issues
  • Displays on teachers doors alluding to that teachers political beliefs and activism
  • School posters talking about 'decolonising the curriculum'
  • Shelves of trashy teen romance books in the school library (Heartstopper and similar) - I'd expect to see books with sex as a theme in a secondary library, but 1984/Brave New World/Dorian Grey type stuff rather than Forever(!)
  • So many wall displays including people who haven't made significant contributions to their field but were there purely on identity. The most bizarre one I saw was in Physics and had Dr Rachel Padman (an MtoF chap who taught me at Cambridge in the 90's!)

I guess I want a school to deal quickly with any type of bullying, and help kids who are struggling, but I don't love how this now seems to be tied to identity groups and bleed into activism now.

OP posts:
musicalfrog · Today 13:44

Biggest red flag for me was pronouns on emails.

Send them all an email that needs a reply.

Beowulfa · Today 13:54

Poppingby · Today 13:33

Decolonising the curriculum means making a concerted effort to learn/teach things additional to those that dead posh white men told us we should learn 100 hundred years ago. In a state school in zone 3 London the presumably very varied student body in terms of class and culture makes those conversations entirely appropriate if you're interested in engaging your students in that curriculum. Difficult to argue otherwise really.

We studied the likes of Farrukh Dhondy, Ruth Prawer Jabhvala and Derek Alcott for GCSE/A Level at my local yokel West Country state comp back in the 90s. The teacher was open to our proposing any text at A Level; she said she would ring up the exam board and make a case. I didn't realise this was unusual in any way.

Imdunfer · Today 15:01

Poppingby · Today 13:12

My kids' z3 London school probably has all these. I'm quite gender critical - in the true sense, i.e. I think gender is made up, not in the I hate men who wear a dress sense - and I think it is led by the kids and because of that these are the greenest of green flags. Kids feel comfortable, school doesn't make a huge drama out of using whichever pronouns people want to, separate all gender bogs as well as single sex is perfectly legal, nobody is feeling shut down or victimised so kids are more or less happy to do what they're told. With exceptions obviously.

As for the library, kids perform better where reading for pleasure is encouraged and kids like reading the stuff you mentioned.

I think you've gone in deciding to have a conniption. Hope you don't end up as a parent at my kids' school.

Kids feel comfortable

The kids will only feel comfortable if they fit in with the political viewpoints being expressed, though, won't they?

Depending on what was actually being displayed, a gay kid could be very unhappy about Pride flags, a Jewish kid terrified by the implications of a Palestinian flag, a politically right wing kid might not dare open their mouth.

There are good reasons why teachers and schools were supposed to be politically neutral.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 15:41

GCburneraccount · Today 11:46

I've recently visited 8 state secondary schools in my city. Can anyone advise me if any of these things are red flags for gender madness having taken hold, or is this just normal in secondary these days?

My baseline is that none of these would have been allowed at the school I went to - but I'm very out of date! Things were certainly not great for gay kids back then and I hope this has changed for the better.

  • Every school had an LGBTQ club
  • A prominently displayed Stonewall poster 'trans people exist, get over it' (not in context of studying activism/advertising)
  • Specific toilets for 'all genders'
  • Activist/political flags like progress pride used in an activist context (rather than studying activism)
  • Wall displays encouraging activism - e.g. on climate/green issues, LGBT issues, race issues
  • Displays on teachers doors alluding to that teachers political beliefs and activism
  • School posters talking about 'decolonising the curriculum'
  • Shelves of trashy teen romance books in the school library (Heartstopper and similar) - I'd expect to see books with sex as a theme in a secondary library, but 1984/Brave New World/Dorian Grey type stuff rather than Forever(!)
  • So many wall displays including people who haven't made significant contributions to their field but were there purely on identity. The most bizarre one I saw was in Physics and had Dr Rachel Padman (an MtoF chap who taught me at Cambridge in the 90's!)

I guess I want a school to deal quickly with any type of bullying, and help kids who are struggling, but I don't love how this now seems to be tied to identity groups and bleed into activism now.

Understanding about difference isn't a red flag. It's progress.

It's a reflection of how aware teachers are of the extreme bullying in schools, especially secondaries, of people who are different.

One of my sons had a best friend in school.whose Dad was Brazilian. Poor kid moved between schools until he settled at ours, which had a strong emphasis on anti-racism. He was relentlessly called racial slurs in the others. This was only twelve or so years ago. Teaching acceptance to kids (ours was a very white area) mattered. It still does.

Two of my sons are autistic, one also has adhd and the other is deaf. Their younger brother is trans. My aunt is gay, I'm non-binary and have a neurological disability, my brother has learning disability. And we aren't in any way unusual in that. I'm actually very cheered to hear your report, because I know how ignorance has affected my family.

Difference is normal, everyday and should be explained to kids, preferably early.

Being trans is no more imposed on children than being gay, and there are very few trans kids in schools. Existence is not violence. Celebrating difference is a wonderful thing.

There is no 'gender madness,' just a few kids getting the help and support they need. Given the massive upsurge in anti-trans violence in schools, early education is an absolute priority.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Today 15:51

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 15:41

Understanding about difference isn't a red flag. It's progress.

It's a reflection of how aware teachers are of the extreme bullying in schools, especially secondaries, of people who are different.

One of my sons had a best friend in school.whose Dad was Brazilian. Poor kid moved between schools until he settled at ours, which had a strong emphasis on anti-racism. He was relentlessly called racial slurs in the others. This was only twelve or so years ago. Teaching acceptance to kids (ours was a very white area) mattered. It still does.

Two of my sons are autistic, one also has adhd and the other is deaf. Their younger brother is trans. My aunt is gay, I'm non-binary and have a neurological disability, my brother has learning disability. And we aren't in any way unusual in that. I'm actually very cheered to hear your report, because I know how ignorance has affected my family.

Difference is normal, everyday and should be explained to kids, preferably early.

Being trans is no more imposed on children than being gay, and there are very few trans kids in schools. Existence is not violence. Celebrating difference is a wonderful thing.

There is no 'gender madness,' just a few kids getting the help and support they need. Given the massive upsurge in anti-trans violence in schools, early education is an absolute priority.

This isn't about understanding difference. This is both selling a regressive belief that sex change is a good option for teenage pubertal angst and teachers ignoring their legal requirements to be politically neutral.
It's perfectly possible (and the majority of schools manage this) to nurture an accepting anti bullying environment where children know that they will be safe and their views listened to and respected.
Political activists in schools are replicating a frantic online world where everyone's a bigot and phobe if they fail to spout the accepted mantras or fail to use compelled speech.
The young are entitled to learn, play and mature without having to navigate age inappropriate beliefs pushed at them by activists.

WearyAuldWumman · Today 16:09

The worst, I'd say is "Displays on teachers doors alluding to that teachers political beliefs and activism." That would be it for me - I'd not want my child to attend the school.

In Scotland, teachers are told that they shouldn't be sharing their politics with children.

I worked in an LA where councillors were pressurising headteachers into displaying LGBT+ posters. There was also a push for those clubs, but that's not necessarily a red flag, provided they're just being used as a 'safe space' for gay and bi teenagers to talk.

If staff are all displaying their pronouns, then that suggests that the SLT has been captured. I was aware of some schools where Headteachers were vying for Stonewall accreditation.

I did supply in one school where there was a rainbow crossing, but it had been ordered by a previous HT and was being allowed to flake off by the time I arrived.

I covered a class where the absent teacher had a nameplate with a cartoon pic of himself (bloke with a beard) and "Mx" as his title. From what the kids said, he was off with stress because they remembered to call him "Mx" but kept using the wrong pronouns. [No, I didn't hold a conversation with them about this - it was one throwaway comment made by a boy and I went temporarily deaf.]

He's obviously no longer there - I recently saw a community FB post where a parent was complaining (in rather robust terms) about a woman in a different department who 'doesnae ken what she is' and was insisting on being "Mx" with particular pronouns. The parent voiced his concern that someone with obvious mental health issues shouldn't be in the school. I should imagine that the other teacher would have had a mention if he were still there.

My opinion is that staff are entitled to their beliefs, but they shouldn't be foisting them upon pupils.

As an example, during the Scottish independence referendum, staff were warned that they shouldn't be discussing how they were going to vote with pupils. (Two members of staff did tell the kids that they were voting "No" and weren't pulled up on it, however, probably because the HT was also a "No" voter.)

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