Anyone listening to Radio 4 discussion on sex, gender and Pride flags?

[Gagagardener]

Is anyone else listening to BBC R4 programme o at the moment 'Pride Before the Fall'? Current speaker defending taking down of Trans flags.

Yes, I posted on this thread about it
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5566286-ipsos-pride-report-2026
Totally captured presenter.

I've listened to it. It's barely about transpeople! Would you like to see LGB rights dismantled at the same time as trans rights?

Would you like to see LGB rights dismantled at the same time as trans rights?
Considering that I don't recall ever seeing anyone on this board support the dismantling of gay rights, why exactly are you asking this question?
Why force team them? Why imply that legitimate criticism of the homophobia and misogyny in the trans community is somehow anti-LGB?
Trans demands and LGB rights are very different things.
If you want to support trans rights as you understand them, then you should be able to make the case for them in their own right without hiding behind spurious accusations.

Transpeople still have all the same human rights as everyone else. None of their rights have been dismantled. They claimed certain privileges over other groups which the law, after due deliberation, ruled against. That's all.

It was worse than that. The Supreme Court clarified that the law had all along been as women's rights activists had said it was, not as Stonewall, Amnesty, Mermaids, Pink News and many other gender ideologists had said it was - i.e. when the Equality Act talks about sex and single sex spaces and services, it means biological sex, not self-identified gender. So it wasn't really that the courts considered what trans people were demanding and ruled against it, it was a case of clarifying that after years when they claimed that they had certain legal rights it was now made crystal clear that they didn't.

Exactly that. But I don't think the public, by and large, have that clear picture of the situation.

I was only thinking earlier why don’t trans activists fight for whatever they think needs fighting for as their own separate thing? Trans has absolutely nothing to do with LGB and nothing to do with sexuality.

I mean, obviously we all know why. Where would they be without the force teaming?

I see it as a good sign, even inadvertent, that LGB are not T. Second one in two days 🎉

If the Radio 4 programme hadn't included references to contemporary events I would have assumed it was from about 2018.

The narrator/reporter didn't seem to twig the significance of the fact that those from the marginalised LGBTQ+ community talking about being under threat were relaxed about explaining who they were and being named. A lesbian and a gay bloke were mentioned as dissenters but they wouldn't give consent to be identified. Their wasn't even a recording of their comments in their own voices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00300kt

Posted this on the other thread.

This isn't Working also, did a great breakdown about why companies are moving away from Pride:
Pride was about getting equality for same-sex attracted people. They have equality now. I think it is important to remind and celebrate progress and protections for people who have been horrifically discriminated against in the past, but a whole month seems redundant now. Women don't get a whole month. Younger people meet online and don't want to go out and be hedonistic in the way that Canal Street is famous for.

Also, a lot of the support for the gay community came from women. A lot of the campaigning against JK Rowling and Kathleen Stock initially, and the gaslighting and abuse, came from gay men just piling on. Drag Ballroom culture is straight-up misogyny and is now mainstream.

No 'trans rights' are being dismantled. The legal protections for gender reassignment are absolutely untouched and unaffected in the Equality Act, confirmed by the SCJ.

LBG legal protections were specifically part of the SC case and judgment as without sex based rights these cannot exist. The SCJ made clear that those protections in law can only be sustained if sex based provisions are maintained, which involved people with trans identities not being permitted to use those not for their sex. With then, the added confimation (also from EHRC guidance) that there should be additional gender neutral provisions which are not required by law at all, but are the inclusive and right thing to do so that no one is left without an accessible provision that meets their needs.).

Gay legal protections and trans legal protections are not one and the same thing, and the trans political movement ambitions are quite openly homophobic and against gay legal protections existing. Because they are sex based.

Not dismantling those protections is important. Yes.

And the open indicator that something exists for an identified as sex that confirms they are not really of that sex.

That's the sticking point.

If you have a group for lesbians and you are insisting that those lesbians can only be - well. Actual women lesbians.

Men who identify as lesbians will, yes, find this hard and upsetting and limiting to their identity and it may cause severe dysphoria and anger.

That isn't however a good reason to prevent lesbians having the right to meet and associate and campaign etc for themselves. They are not there to meet the men's needs, that's a separate issue.