Pakistan’s deep denial about grooming gangs

[TheGander]

Pakistan is refusing to take back the leader of a grooming gang in his release from prison.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyxnvjy706o
It states he was raised, groomed and “ unfortunately spoiled” in the UK. I understand no one wants to be left holding this deeply unattractive parcel, but to deny that his Pakistani heritage has anything to do with the grooming is staggering to me.

Why should they. He's been here since he was 14 (i.e. his whole adult life). The claim that he is a product of Britain has some weight (although I think that his heritage was central to his behaviour). His contempt for women is ingrained in the culture. It's true he couldn't have carried on like that in Pakistan but only because there isn't an available underclass of non muslim girls. We need to build more prisons so these fuckers have somewhere to rot.

Pakistan received £133 million in UK foreign aid last year.
Take back your human detritus or we stop your money.

I can understand them not wanting him back. But to say he was groomed and “spoiled” in the UK is outrageous. I am sure the mentality is” if he’d grown up in a righteous Islamic country he wouldn’t have done what he did”. Conveniently ignoring that time and again the men in grooming gangs targeting vulnerable girls are of Pakistani origin.

So what do Pakistan do with groomers and rapists that is superior to us?

Just say, sorry, that package of Aid is cancelled. Bye.

Probably deny that the problem exists in the first place. Bribe the police. Shame the victims into silence or in the best case, marry them to prevent shame on their family. Pakistan is at the bottom of the country list for gender parity. Yes, even below Afghanistan.

Smart, then they'll stop all the economic relations we have with them - you'd be amazed how many factories in Pakistan produce goods for UK companies.

And they'll also then likely renege on all the other collaborative work with our security and intelligence services aimed at tackling illegal migration.

"Foreign aid" isn't a charitable gift, that's a massive oversimplification and thinking we can browbeat Pakistan with a measly £133m (over 3 years) bung is naive in the extreme.

Plus there's all the commonwealth history to take into account.

And now isn't really the time to be alienating close allies on the world stage, especially since Pakistan is such a key mediator between the US and Iran.

I know people want him to go back to Pakistan and I for one would be very happy to see him go. But let's be realistic about what's actually available and apply some critical thinking for thirty seconds.

Don't they have the death penalty there?

Well, they don't have a steady supply of poor and disenfranchised non-Muslim girls on tap there, so I imagine it's slightly more difficult than it is here.

Those girls were groomed and raped because those Pakistani men regarded them as trash. I'm usually against physical punishment but I'd geld the lot of them.

I would imagine his thoughts and feelings towards women were formed long before 14. In their country I believe that in the 70s when he arrived, that was old enough for a girl to be married and responsible for children. And now they’re claiming he “was a child” when he came here at the same age? Double standards for girls and boys in Pakistan? Blow me down with a feather. However I don’t think it’s a good idea to deport him to a country where he could do the same again and more with total impunity because they are so corrupt and hate women. IDK what we should do with him.

‘Unfortunately spoiled’.
Interesting choice of words, there.

As he was only 14 when he came to the UK I dont want to send him back, sorry but

What I do advocate however is going for the Dutch approach and detaining offenders in secure hospitals with detention reviewed every two years. Basically he would never be let out and that I suggest would send a message to others like him.

Looks like some brave people are trying to make a difference in Pakistan. But as expected, they are up against denial , by the medical profession amongst others, there aren’t clear reporting procedures etc. https://www.bradford.ac.uk/research/impact/blog/child-abuse/

Even worse in some cases.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-40731035

I know a taxi driver from Pakistan who sent all 3 of his boys back to Pakistan at 15 to be educated in a Madrasa, so being in the UK since he was 14 doesn't mean as much as some people think it does.

Smart, then they'll stop all the economic relations we have with them - you'd be amazed how many factories in Pakistan produce goods for UK companies.

I don't doubt China can make up any short fall in double quick time, the incentive is with Pakistan to keep us sweet not the UK bending the knee to them.

And now isn't really the time to be alienating close allies on the world stage, especially since Pakistan is such a key mediator between the US and Iran.

Yeah bang up job they did on that one.

why should they accept a criminal who has lived in the UK for almost his entire life and has no Pakistani citizenship or passport? would they take a random criminal from China or Brazil or Scotland just because the UK government wanted to get rid of the criminal?

the guy is a horrible person who should be spending the rest of his life in jail. but he should be treated in the same way as white British rapist, and we can't outsource all problems to other countries

He has no Pakistani passport because he renounced his Pakistani nationality after being arrested, a ruse to prevent deportation.

should be treated in the same way as white British rapist, and we can't outsource all problems to other countries.

I be happy to pay Pakistan to take the white rapists too. We might as well get some value for the £133 million we give them in aid.

Plus there's all the commonwealth history to take into account. So post colonial guilt means we go soft on Pakistani rapists? India/ Pakistan has had independence since 1947.

I've come across a couple of things about this in the last few years that have stuck in my mind but I cannot provide links I'm afraid. One was a podcast in which an ex Muslim woman was saying that the reason the Pakistan men are so organised about this is because they also do it in Pakistan, essentially they are well practiced at it and just do what they do there. It might have been Jasmine Mohammed but I am not sure.

The other one was an article in a publication, maybe Unherd or The Critic, written by a young Pakistani man detailing the sexual abuse he was subjected to by his uncle when he was a child, in Pakistan. There was nowhere for him to turn, the women in the family would turn a blind eye but they have no power or influence anyway, and would probably get beaten if they tried. He thought if he took it he would be protecting his sister, but it turned out she was also sexually abused by the same uncle.

All in the context of a very clannish social system which seems to have more to do with Pakistan than Islam, and Islam tends to hoover up an incorporate a lot of what's already there. Behind closed doors, say nothing, boys are abused as well and the women and children have nowhere to go.

I guess, much like other countries, Pakistan wants to pretend it couldn't possibly happen there, but the whole point of the young man writing the article was to say yes it does, to boys as well, it's just hidden by a closed social structure where the abusers have the power. Class doesn't seem to make much difference either, he was well educated and no longer in Pakistan iirc. It's depressingly universal, and sanctimony is cheap.

Edited to add, just to be clear, I am not letting Islam off the hook for its attitudes to women, this is in relation to this particular country.

I would have been quite content for him to stay in jail here, despite public expense. He should have had several life sentences strung together consecutively, and therefore would never come out. But he served only two thirds of the inadequate sentence he was given and is now out and about. Our justice system does not like women and girls. 😱

Whenever Pakistani “ elders” are asked about any potential cultural elements to this, they come out with bland statements such as “ Islam forbids sexual relations outside marriage”. The denial really is deep. What @EmpressDomesticatednottamed says sounds very realistic.

He would be admired by enough men that he would have a very easy life over there.
I read many years ago a Radfem imagining of a world where men lived completely separately to women on some sort of island where they were occasionally thrown food and largely left to only harm each other. I disagree with it in general but think there’s merit in that idea for some men.

Pakistan has no responsibility for his crimes.
Unfortunately the Pakistani's that migrated here came from a very insular community and continued to live in that village, racist and misogynistic mindset with a religious undertone.
Due to the UKs reluctance to promote social cohesion in the name of anti-racism allowed this to fester.

I believe there’s been a toxic silence on it, facilitated by a police force traumatised by the report into Stephen’s Lawrence’s bungled murder investigation and terrified of appearing racist, and a Labour Party in post industrial northern towns that didn’t want to lose the then reliable Pakistani vote.