Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?

[SolveMyPrombles]

I'm asking on this board for deliberate considered responses so please do share your thoughts.

A lady on a local group has described being trans as a mental illness that should be treated with compassion not pandered to because it's a disease.

Looking into it more deeply I believe she's wrong and there is no current diagnostic manual that agrees with her take.

What do you think?

How is that a caricature? That is the actual behaviour of quite a worrying number of visible trans people.

Do you think claiming to be severely oppressed and making rape threat is the normal experience?

What do you think is the ‘normal experience’? Any trans person that insists on using facilities for the opposite sex or lies about their sex in situations where it affects others or tries to get people sacked or their careers destroyed - is that the part of what you call the normal experience or not?

What proportion of trans identifying men do none of those things?

What proportion of trans identifying females do none of those things?

No. Not online as much as you’d think. Too busy living my life. I mean, I haven’t seen any trans people condemning the threats so one would infer they agree with those making the threats. I treat trans beliefs the same way I would treat someone claiming to be Nelson. I wouldn’t encourage them to remove an arm and an eye and iwould suggest they seek medical help. Why would we affirm someone claiming to be the opposite sex, but not affirm someone claiming to be Nelson? Both beliefs are erroneous.

I don’t see how any of those are actually limiting function.

They appear unable to use facilities due their sex
They have no problem using facilities. It’s just not the ones you want them to use.

in many cases unable to tell the truth about their sex
Why do you assume they can’t? Maybe it’s just none of your business.

or even hear people using the correct words to refer to them
So you’re saying you’d be totally okay with someone repeatedly calling you the wrong name or using he instead of she?

Eek - dilemma!

Trans people are very normal, functioning individuals who just get on with things like everyone else (so not vulnerable and marginalised and not needing meds and surgery or they will kill themselves. No crazy demands whatsoever).

Or they are very vulnerable and will kill themselves if not given what they want. And we must definitely never misgender or it's genocide.

Hmmmm.

Check out the DEFRA threads if you think our perception is due to us being chronically online. An actual court case. From the horse's mouth.

You're focusing entirely on a hyper-visible online fringe and assuming it represents the majority. If I used your exact same logic, I could look at the gender-critical trolls who send death threats, dox people, and hurl abuse online and ask you: 'What proportion of gender-critical people don't do that?' But I don't do that, because I'm capable of understanding that a toxic online fringe doesn't represent the average person.

Or maybe you could assume that trans people aren’t a monolithic group made up of extremely vulnerable or functioning people, but are individual people with their own experience.

No love, that’s the TRA with the threats etc. You’re getting them mixed up. We had one on here doxxing women and another advocated for rape with a splintery rolling pin for the crime of being women not agreeing with him. The easy way to spit the difference is GC women use facts, logistics and statistics to make their arguments, TRAs use threats and piss protests. HTH 😀

Toilets - it's the law. These are normally functioning adults, you say? Follow the law like everyone else is expected to in society.

Your second point makes no sense. Did the whole TWAW thing pass you by?

I couldn't care less if someone called me Bob and referred to me as he. Because I'm an adult who has more than a teaspoon's worth of resilience.

I’d actually like to be called Bob I think.

Literally none of whom have ever, or will ever, change sex. But many of whom claim they have. And expect everyone else to agree with them.

Bob. Same forwards as it is backwards.

And easy to remember. Could also be short for Roberta so a gender neutral name

I like Bob.

Literally none of whom have ever, or will ever, change sex
So what? Most people, including me, agree with that, but it doesn’t stop trans people existing as individuals.

Toilets - it's the law. These are normally functioning adults, you say? Follow the law like everyone else is expected to in society
Yes, it is the law for service providers.

I couldn't care less if someone called me Bob and referred to me as he. Because I'm an adult who has more than a teaspoon's worth of resilience.
You’re telling me if someone did it repeatedly and intentionally you wouldn’t care?

Well if they agree they haven’t changed sex, why do they demand to use the facilities of the sex they are not?

They have no problem using facilities. It’s just not the ones you want them to use.

It’s not what I want them to use, it is the facilities allocated for their sex. There are a number of unfounded claims that some trans people use to say that they can’t use the facilities further sex and they often even refuse the unisex facilities also provided. That is not how people normally function in society. Some trans people use the correct facilities for their sex, what’s stopping the rest of them?

Why do you assume they can’t? Maybe it’s just none of your business.

Ok clumsy wording - maybe they can tell the truth abort their sex. Mr Izzard has no problem when the pay packet needs a man for the role. But many refuse to tell the truth about their sex. Some even obtain a new id documents with incorrect information about their sex. In situations where their sex or presence affects others it is everyone’s business.

So you’re saying you’d be totally okay with someone repeatedly calling you the wrong name or using he instead of she?

That’s the point though, we don’t want to call them by a women’s name if they are a man and having to call a man ‘she’ instead of ‘he’. ‘He’ is the correct pronoun for a man, no one should be objecting to others using it in his absence.

Very interesting! Thank you for writing all that out, so worth reading to understand the cleverness

But the ‘hyper visible online fringe’ are also valid trans people who pop up in real life from time to time. We can’t discount or ignore them as policies across the nation have been made to accommodate them at women’s expense.

You forget I (and many of us here) also know trans people irl.

I could look at the gender-critical trolls who send death threats, dox people, and hurl abuse online

Yeah right - some Olympic level projection going on there.

So why are so many policies or even laws made that treat trans people exactly like a monolithic group made up of extremely vulnerable or functioning people if they are not?

Can you let the government know that they can revert back to normal policies that recognise the rights and needs of all? And maybe repeal the special law they have?

As pronounced by Rowan Atkinson as Blackadder. If he could pronounce it for me every day I’d be called Bob too.

Talking about different names, I’ve known a lady for years and she calls me by a name completely different to my own. She’s also the sort of person who uses your name in direct conversation a lot.

As you were wondering about this @DumbfoundedAndUnhappy I find it hilarious but daren’t correct her as she’d be quite embarrassed. Maybe she’ll find out one day but I won’t be there. 🤣

Or the long form of the name, Kate.

The law can recognise that a group has a need as a whole without assuming every single person within the group has exactly the same experience and difficulties.

Is this like how work refuse to call me a Director and repeatedly and intentionally call me a Senior Analyst because apparently that's my actual job title, even though I very much identify as a Director and see myself having far more in common with the other Directors than I do Senior Analysts?

Because yeah, I do find that really offensive and invalidating actually. I think they should accept me as the Director I am inside.

Just so we are clear, you know the law does not recognise that trans people have a need to the single sex spaces, rights and protections of the opposite sex, yes?