Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?

[SolveMyPrombles]

I'm asking on this board for deliberate considered responses so please do share your thoughts.

A lady on a local group has described being trans as a mental illness that should be treated with compassion not pandered to because it's a disease.

Looking into it more deeply I believe she's wrong and there is no current diagnostic manual that agrees with her take.

What do you think?

LOL you really do struggle with coherent logical discussion, don’t you?

How was your comment that ‘context matters’ when deciding whether a person’s claim to be trans should be taken at face value any LESS transphobic than my questioning how that could possibly operate in the real world?

And no, I wouldn’t make the same argument about religious people because they do not require me to believe in their beliefs however loosely or deeply held. They don’t require that my child be fast tracked down a medically contentious and dangerous pathway in order to comply with those beliefs, and they do not require that I change my life in response to their religious edicts. They can believe what they want to, or even just pretend to, so long as the practice of those beliefs is done in their own homes and places of worship. Pretty much what we’ve asked of those who call themselves ‘trans’, really.

Anyway, I am out of this thread for now as it’s just going around in circles.

I have womaning or manning or something to do.

Yet you're the one pushing the 'no true scotsman fallacy', which shows your own transphobia.

The fact is much of human interaction relies on accepting people at the face value of what they say that could be wrong. But somehow for trans this is an existential threat?

Nah. People being trans is perfectly fine.

It's men trying to get into female single-sex spaces that's the problem.

Children are always told never to accept what a stranger says just on face value. Doing that is incredibly naive. We must also trust our instincts and our gut feeling in any situation.

The fact is much of human interaction relies on accepting people at the face value of what they say that could be wrong.

And don't men just love to play on that!

"It was only a joke"
"I'm not going to try anything, you're more like one of the lads!"
"Of course we're exclusive"
"Of course we'll share housework 50/50"
"My ex was psycho"
"I'm paying what's fair for my kids"

"Don't you trust me? That really hurts"

You seem to be conveniently demanding a standard that can't be proven. Do you really need that tho to assess the increased risk of suicidality for trans people?

I'm asking for the trans lobby to stop blocking truly unbiased research that is perfectly possible to do but which they will not allow in case it shows up some very uncomfortable truths.

Funding is consistently withheld for such projects as research organisations fear reputational damage from trans activism.

Posted upthread. Conveniently changing the standard again to even more recent figures? Your attempts at denial are breathtaking

Oh the irony.

On the contrary social & familial rejection are broadly accepted suicide/mental health risk factors for the general population so they equally would apply to trans. It would help save repetition if you read my previous comments thoroughly.

Of course they are, don't preach to me about that, I haven't spoken to my family in more than a decade. What I don't have is some immensely welcoming alternative family to wrap their arms round me and tell me how wonderful I am so my question remains why so many more trans people commit or attempt suicide after transition than the general population. And again the trans activists shut down funding for really searching independent research on this and deplatform anyone who tries to discuss it and attempts to stop publishers from handling authors who address it.

Making someone 'feel better' & changing their perception of their core identity are two very different things.

There certainly are but when you are faced with late onset transgender ideation in teenagers you are never going to know what you are truly dealing with if you block puberty and give cross sex hormones.

@Imdunfer

What I don't have is some immensely welcoming alternative family to wrap their arms round me and tell me how wonderful I am so my question remains why so many more trans people commit or attempt suicide after transition than the general population.

Cult love-bombing may make a troubled individual feel better for a while, but when it's rescinded as soon as the individual does something the cult doesn't like or simply continues to complain of still suffering from their old problems, the situation may get even worse for the individual than it was in the beginning.

(Not assuming you don't know that, Imdunfer, just wanted to make sure it was clearly mentioned.)

You think you have already answered them but your answers raise more questions.

You appear to answer individual questions with whatever suits you in that moment, but put together your answers do not form a coherent argument.

I can only conclude that you are making it up as you go along.

You've now decided that non-binary is an umbrella term. Why does that umbrella term not include genderfluid, which you have rejected as a valid gender?

Just for you @Baileyonice as you are so keen to know the truth.

From quite a ‘pro trans’ study. It casually observes that children are more likely to persist with the medication than adults which is a serious issue given the fact that they effectively self diagnose.

The study sample included 627 transmasculine and 325 transfeminine individuals with an average age of 19.2 ± 5.3 years. The 4-year gender-affirming hormone continuation rate was 70.2% (95% CI, 63.9-76.5). Transfeminine individuals had a higher continuation rate than transmasculine individuals 81.0% (72.0%-90.0%) vs 64.4% (56.0%-72.8%). People who started hormones as minors had higher continuation rate than people who started as adults 74.4% (66.0%-82.8%) vs 64.4% (56.0%-72.8%).

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/107/9/e3937/6572526

But the reality is that no one really knows for the level of suppression of the information discussed in this article. The fact that no one knows the true extent of the numbers doesn’t negate the fact that it is significantly more than zero. It should be zero if the trans activists own rhetoric is to be believed. The truth always has a way of leaking out.

segm.org/regret-detransition-rate-unknown

What spaces do you use?

That is quite a mind blowing post. Are you suggesting that you are more ‘educated’ on the subject of trans than a trans person themself?

I use the toilets I'm expected to use in my captured country, that is, the men's. I would have no problem using the ladies', though (other than the fear of scaring a woman for the one second she might need to realise I'm not actually a man despite the beard). And if I went to the UK, I'd try to use only gender-neutral toilets.

I don't use other single-sex spaces.

So no answer to my question then. I’m not sure how your post is relevant?

What would you do if there wasn’t a gender neutral space available in the UK?

Use the ladies', of course. Why would I do anything else?

It reminds me of the man in the play who discovered, to his surprise, that he had been speaking prose all his life.

It is so obvious that the issue here is not that trans and NB people are wrong about themselves, but that they are wrong about everyone else.

They assume we so-called "cis" people all feel things that in reality we simply do not feel

And that leads them to believe they are different to the rest of their sex - "really" the opposite sex, or non-binary - when they are just completely normal people within the wide range of humans of their sex, and probably more like the majority then the minority of humans who feel they are genuinely fully aligned with whatever gender roles (or commonalities 🙄) society applies to their sex.

Monsieur Jourdain in Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme? A play about someone trying to be something he's not... 😁

Usernames that you misread cos letters jumble up in your head. Ahhh. Amusing.

Derren Brown has a trick where he gives a group of people a brown envelope containing an individualised horoscope about themselves, about their personality and so on. They all open the envelopes, read the stuff and then go on about how it's exactly them, incredible.

Then he gets them to swap horoscopes and they realise they've all been given the same thing. I'll give a go at typing it out if anyone is interested.

Yes please

No, of course it isn't.

Being trans is completely normal, and only one facet of who a person is. All trans people have normal lives. Many are parents, almost all hold down jobs. They aren't mentally ill, something which affects your ability to function.

You need to read more coming-out stories rather than asking here.

That's it! Thanks. I had forgotten the name of the play.