Draft Conversion Practices Bill - published

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/draft-conversion-practices-bill

You’re being extremely homophobic here. Homosexuality is the attraction to people of the same SEX. Gender has nothing to do with it.

No dear, gender identity is stereotypes. If it were truly about a misalignment with ones sexed body, then why do middle aged men who suddenly claim a trans identity dress up in clothing most women wouldn’t be seen dead in? School uniforms, fishnets, massive fake breasts, nylon wigs, stilettos?
It’s about misogyny. Hatred of women combined with the desire to be seen as a woman. Keep away from our children.

Show me this research. However low it is, it proves that it’s a made up phenomenon otherwise there would be no such thing as a detransitioners.

I haven't read the thread but this may be interesting..
https://x.com/i/status/2070181377538981973

A biological man and a biological woman who both identify as men and are in a relationship are not gay, however much they may claim they are. They are heterosexual. I actually came across such a couple last week, who insisted they were gay men in a gay relationship, despite one of them obviously being a woman and she had in fact given birth recently. Just to make it clear for you in terms you may understand: before same-sex marriage (which wasn't that long ago) they would have been able to marry, whereas a same-sex couple would not have been able to.

Then there are also the creepy heterosexual men who call themselves "lesbians". Don't forget, Stonewall has said that actual lesbians who don't want to form relationships or have sex with transwomen (i.e. heterosexual men) are akin to racists.

This is exactly why all the "gender" stuff is homophobic - heterosexuals claim to be "gay" or "lesbian" (and take over actual gay and lesbian things and also pressure politicians to take pro-"gender" stances that effectively erase homosexuality), whilst we actual lesbian and gay people are pressured to have relationships with people of the opposite sex who claim to be of the same "gender" as us otherwise we are "transphobic" or like "racists".

Let's also not overlook how this kind of stuff messes up actual gay kids who are going through the phase of trying to work their sexuality out. When so much "gender" stuff is presented to them, and people who oppose the gender woo are presented as phobic and uncool, while the "gender diverse" are cool and special and precious, it's very easy for them to slip into thinking that what they're feeling means they are "genderqueer" or trans or nonbinary or whatever, and not gay. That might be ok if they were just left to work things out and grow up and eventually get to a point where they are comfortable with being gay, but a "conversion therapy ban" of the sort described in this daft bill would make it very difficult for their friends and family to talk to them and say, for example, "hey, it's ok to be gay and like other boys" (if they are male but "identify" as a girl) because that would be akin to encouraging them to think they are not trans, which apparently is "conversion therapy".

There is no "state-sanctioned torture". Stop being so histrionic. A state-certified therapist trying to explore the causes of a distressed youth is not torturing them. A private individual telling a friend or child who says they are trans to think about whether they are or not and just to keep an open mind before taking any permanent steps to transition is not "torturing" anyone. Private conversations are not "state-sanctioned".

I tell you who else is interested in defining things well in law.

All the senior lawyers in the House of Lords. This bill is going to get amended very very seriously if not defeated outright.

We are ripping the bill to shreds here and we have hardly started.

Meanwhile..

SEEN in Journalism

No journalist should be buying the claim that this is about gay people. That should be treated with the cynicism for which we’re supposed to be famous. Apply Occam’s Razor and it’s about self-identification of sex. It’s entirely plausible - in fact very likely, and journalists should at least ask the question - that having failed to achieve self-ID in the UK via Scotland, via unlawful policy, via media or judiciary capture, or via ‘misogyny’ legislation, campaigners aided by activist civil servants are wheeling out ‘conversion therapy’ as the latest vehicle for a deeply unpopular campaign that’s been repeatedly rejected.

Very interesting facts coming out

teresa smith

‘Meeting with the Greater Manchester LGBTQ+ Equality Panel in October 2022, Andy Burnham, Mayor of GMcr raised an urgent business item at the November GMCA Board meeting to obtain formal agreement from the Panel’s GM Pledge to End Conversion Therapy’

If the bill goes through, insisting that homosexuality isn't a thing and it's all about gender, will be a straight route into court for those who are actually gay as opposed to role playing.

Edited to add; of course you then have two groups using that law: homosexuals saying the TAs wish to erase and appropriate and redefine homosexuality and deny it's a thing, and the TAs arguing that to erase their gender based homosexuality is equally against the law, and under the complete pigs ear of this drafted bill, both will be right. Which shows you how ridiculous it is. How does the law deal with both those situations in conflict? And it will be a playground squabble anyway, taking years, costing God knows how much, using up court time, and based on a ridiculously bad piece of legislation that achieves sod all

Bayswater Support

A draft conversion practices bill has now been published. We will continue scrutinising the detail, but we believe this bill constitutes an indefensible incursion by the state into family life with devastating impacts for parents who are trying to support their children in what is already a hostile environment.

^https://gov.uk/government/publications/draft-conversion-practices-bill^

Individual parents, parent-led support groups like BayswaterSG
, and healthcare professionals (including the NHS paediatric gender services) continue to be subjected to a barrage of false accusations that they are engaging in "conversion". This draft bill adds the threat of criminal prosecution to those wildly inaccurate claims.

Even if the bar for prosecution is high, the chilling effect and the detrimental impact on public understanding of transgender identity is profound. One thing we can be sure of is that accusations of conversion will come thick and fast, as they have done over the last decade. Escaping prosecution will be scant consolation for those subjected to this onslaught of fabrication and intimidation.

The threat of being prosecuted for corporate conversion means that schools will be even more inclined to affirm a child's attested cross-sex identity, despite safeguarding advice to exercise caution. The potential psychological and lifelong medical consequences for the child will be less of a concern to a school than its own legal risk under poorly defined legislation.

The press release for the bill claims "robust thresholds that protect open conversations, and free speech", but those are nowhere to be seen in the bill itself.

Instead, the bill relies on subjective assessments to define what constitutes criminally "abusive" conduct, stating that this would need to involve "controlling or coercive words or behaviour" or "use of psychological or emotional pressure".

Accusations of psychological or emotional abuse are rife when it comes to transgender identity. If this bill becomes effective, parents will justifiably fear that such accusations could now escalate into a threat of a criminal offence that carries a penalty of imprisonment up to 5 years.

But that is not the only concern for parents who must now worry about the prospect of a "conversion practice protection order" should they disagree with their child over the merits of a "transgender identity" as the explanation for the child's experience. Any parent who fails to affirm their child's "transgender identity" or who voices concerns about a belief that mind and body can be mismatched in this way could be accused of exerting "psychological or emotional pressure" under the terms of this bill.

None of this will help the parents of a distressed young teenager who is convinced that her "transgender identity" means she needs to source DIY testosterone to modify her body in line with her identity. Or parents frantic with concern over their young adult son, who is failing to hold down work or social relationships, all while pinning his hopes of happiness on a medical transformation with significant risks to his long-term health and well-being.

Most importantly of all, this bill will harm the very people it purports to protect by enshrining in law a belief that is inextricably bound up with rejection of the body and psychological distress.

I'm glad to see so much push back and by people who know what they're talking about.

On a depressing note however, the people who objected to the PB trial also knew what they were talking about and the muppets in parliament are still going ahead with that. 🤬

playground squabble anyway, taking years, costing God knows how much, using up court time,

A lot of activists are very keen on, and well-practiced in, using delay tactics to allow them to keep doing whatever it is they want to do, while pretending that they are waiting for the law to be settled. So they can keep looking for "eggs" to crack in the interim, something which seems like will become unlawful if the Bill does become law, and if their actions are deemed harmful (just picking up what a previous poster said).

And, in the meantime, if someone else is paying for court cases, why should they care?

We are all either male or female. 'Sexuality' is the experience of feeling like a sexual being . 'Sexual orientation' is where that sex drive is oriented for its satisfaction.

What you are calling. 'trans children' are just children like any other - but whose emotional or adaptational distress has been captured and manipulated by an adult ideology ( An ideology is a set of ideas or theories about hown the world is, or should be). Normal childhood feelings and imaginings are harnessed in the service of adult agendas. Having a 'trans child' can also create a special identity for the parent who nurtures that idea. There are numerous parents parading their 'trans children' around on social media for their own enrichment, 'likes and gains. This could also be considered abuse.

You are entitled to your ideological belief system and the framwork that has been erected around it - comprised of terminology such as 'Cis' and 'Pan' but it is a kind of luxury belief that most people don't subscribe to and which tends to dissolve on contact with hard reality - for the reason it is totally dependent on social acceptance for its existence and for its claims about itself.

Encouraging a child in a false belief that is not going to be accepted by wider society is not being a good parent, surely. The idea that we should endlessly indulge and encourage every passing feeling or fantasy and this is what constitutes love is highly questionable. Love also entails holding boundaries and being aware of the reality a child will inhabit for the rest of their lives.

Sexual orientation is not an 'identity' - unless you make it into one and have everything revolve around it.

Are you aware that the bill refers to the Equality Act for its definition of sexual orientation? So it’s based on biological sex, so a “trans lesbian” is a straight or bisexual man.

(7) “Sexual orientation” has the same meaning as in Equality Act 2010 (see section 12(1)).

Equality Act:

12 Sexual orientation
(1) Sexual orientation means a person’s sexual orientation towards—
(a) persons of the same sex,
(b) persons of the opposite sex, or
(c) persons of either sex.

Sex Matters analysis very useful with stats and good points. Read it.

Draft conversion-practices bill threatens parents with jail time

What happens next?
Ministers have opted for the slow track: the draft bill will be sent for pre-legislative scrutiny by a joint committee. This gives parliamentarians, clinicians, parents and teachers a vital window to influence what happens next.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/draft-conversion-practices-bill-threatens-parents-with-jail-time/

That point is very useful. The fact is it going through a committee stage gives us to organise. A huge weakness as well is the clear aim of the bill is to criminalize parents. It is very vulnerable there as that is obviously unpopular and unworkable.

James Esses interview on GB news on why the bill must be stopped:

Here is my full interview on GB News about the monstrous ‘Conversion Practices Bill’. It is worse than I ever could have imagined.
https://nitter.net/JamesEsses/status/2070213018957328672

Toby Young
Banning trans conversion therapy will cause far more harm than it prevents
It will deter parents from having honest conversations with children who believe they have been born into the wrong bodies

https://archive.ph/kySBU

Lets say this again. It is clear the TAs in the Labour government think they are being clever putting the puberty blockers and this bill out at the same time.

Hating gay kids and autistic teens is not ok. Trying to trick them into surgery and hormones so they FIT your strict rules of gender is awful.

You are not getting away with this time. We are going all in to save the kids.
We have dismantled the TA prison rape camps for women in Scotland. It took us 20 years. They lasted that long because of the coverup.

Too many know the truth now. This time the good guys are organised. We have the best lawyers in the UK onside.

Right now we need to gather information as on this thread debate the bill before we start a mass lobbying effort and information spreading.

Even if we fail we are going to going down fighting and we will come back even stronger. The truth will win. If not today in a few years time.

And ramming through the SEND bill in full face of everyone explaining in detail what's wrong with it and why it won't work, and multiple legal challenges in process.

Bridget was boasting about the “fully trans inclusive bill” the other day in front of the Women and Equalities Committee and she also deflected by saying she was hoping for “less newspaper headlines about trans people” now the EHRC code has been laid. Don’t think so Bridge.

TBH, I can't see a Burnham team dropping this at all. It is one thing that will be offered to the activists in return for their support. The activist faction in the Labour party is pulling the strings here. It's a power grab.

From Bayswater ( thanks fromorbit)

Escaping prosecution will be scant consolation for those subjected to this onslaught of fabrication and intimidation.

Ah, yes, this sounds familiar- the process is the punishment.

Now, where have we heard that before, and to whom does this normally apply?

I think a lot of these MPs and cabinet members are too stupid and tribalistic to understand the full implications, including the possibility that people on the gender identity ideology side will be prosecuted for encouraging transition.

I do think going up against parents could cause a major rethink, even if the whole thing is not dropped. It's like (and I think could be argued for) going after parents for raising your children in an evangelical Christian way of life (is the government really going to come after you for doing this? not if you're not abusing your children) or going after pensioners for their very last pension penny (TV licence for over 75s anyone?).

Going after the parents, even if they think they will never be That Parent in That Situation, is madness. All parents will be worried that they will be next, and parents do not like the Government telling them how to raise their children!

I would love to hear the parents' side of this and what their version of 'rejecting their child' is.

And whether 'self-protection' is just 'not wanting to hear someone disagree with them'.

Teens can be very self-involved and prone to drama. Adults around them should not be feeding into that.

Amazing how one can know so many trans people, and one's kids can know so many trans kids.

Exactly. It’s potentially a “waaaah my parents don’t let me do everything I want to” charter.

When a child comes out to their parents, they are at their most vulnerable. They're usually terrified, however much front they're projecting.

A parent has two choices in that moment: reject them, or hug and ask questions later. Because it's usually a surprise.

Teens are like any other child - totally dependent on their parents. They need to be able to trust them.

Destroy that trust, and you will eventually destroy their love for you.

'Dramatic' is a word often used by abusers to put down people (usually children, but often women too) who show emotion. It's pretty much guaranteed to hurt.

Disagreeing with your child is different to actively trying to change them. Kids deserve respect, and not to live in a home where someone's constantly putting them down.

If you disagree with a child being trans, there is basically zero chance they will be able to access any medical interventions. Surgery is banned for under-18s in most places and without significant financial support they won't be able to access hormonal support. So any transition will be social. At which point, that child becomes incredibly vulnerable to street and school violence.

So the parent has a decision. Respect their child, or help break them.

Wow. You really need to get out more, learn to accept differemce and leave other people alone. This is unbelievably ignorant nonsense.