Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Universities will be the last bastion of gender ideology and the denial of women's rights

101 replies

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 07/06/2026 10:47

With thanks to @IcakethereforeIam A new/spinoff thread to discuss/commiserate about the steadfast refusal of universities to acknowledge that women have rights in law.An article from The Critic, and what I posted on the House of Communion/EDM thread (love the typo, BTW!)

https://archive.ph/L8E0b

https://thecritic.co.uk/how-the-war-wasnt-won

It is depressing, and I think she has put into words how I have been feeling lately about the whole thing. I worked in HE many years ago (not as an academic) and it seems clear to me now that, as universities always do, they will continue to move and change at a glacial pace, if at all.

Universities exist, and have for a very long time existed, in order to exist. They generate income in order to generate income. They hoard their resources in order to buy up land and build their estates, in order to generate more wealth by taking on more and more international, high-fee-paying students, whose families then do their publicity for them. Which, in turn, generates more wealth. So they can exist. In order to exist.

I believe that the only thing that will shift the HE sector will be a high-level, extremely public, lawsuit against a top-ten ranking, Russell Group institution, won with significant damages awarded. So, not one academic suing for constructive dismissal, but a suit by a high-profile, wealthy individual or foundation taken against UCL, Imperial College, or LSE, with the outcome and damages awarded not being hidden behind an NDA.

Or a major foreign donor withdrawing support for the institution.
This could take another generation. I have a feeling that universities will be the last bastion of gender ideology, where the law-deniers teach the next generation of law-deniers.

I'm very glad that I no longer work for a university.

Any thoughts? We know that many universities have withdrawn from Stonewall, but there's a lot more to do. Please cheer us all up if you have any progress in HE that you have noticed. I think we could all use a good news story right now, after the EDM and Hampstead Heath Ponds announcement.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
stickygotstuck · Yesterday 09:28

TempestTost · Yesterday 01:37

I feel that universities have fucked themselves so badly in many ways they may not survive as any kind of center of intellectual life.

The problems with research. The watering down of courses and programs to suit unremarkable thinkers. Especially the loss of protection for controversial discussions. The flat political profile. Too much expensive infrastructure. Dependence on foreign students paying fees. Development of marketable and lucrative stupid masters programs with little worth. And more.

Tbh, although I was once someone who thought the intellectual life of universities was a kind of punicak of achievement, I don't know now if I am sorry if they fail. I think they are making society worse.

That's my general feeling.

Speaking from a purely practical (and somewhat urgent) perspective, I find myself unable to advise DD on next steps after college.

She's in Y12 and considering whether she should go to University. And I don't know what to say.

She's one of those kids who is not sure what she wants to be when she grows up and she is emotionally not as mature. But she'd probably benefit hugely from the relative independence of uni for the first few years as a young adult

She's thankfully safe form being influenced by gender woo now, after gentle conversations with me after events at high school and applying her own critical thinking. However, she's very much afraid of saying anything to her friends when the topic comes up, as they all seem uncritically genderist. (This includes not speaking up when a hobby group cancelled an event because it was extremely tangentially related to JKR. Other than rolling her eyes and telling me how stupid they were.)

I worry about how she'd fare at uni surrounded by such types (I did show her that Maeve Halligan clip BTW).

Off to Liverpool uni open day soon. If anyone has any insider info about things there I'd be grateful for any insights. Other candidates are Newcastle and Manchester. And perhaps Durham.

RedToothBrush · Yesterday 09:49

TempestTost · Yesterday 01:37

I feel that universities have fucked themselves so badly in many ways they may not survive as any kind of center of intellectual life.

The problems with research. The watering down of courses and programs to suit unremarkable thinkers. Especially the loss of protection for controversial discussions. The flat political profile. Too much expensive infrastructure. Dependence on foreign students paying fees. Development of marketable and lucrative stupid masters programs with little worth. And more.

Tbh, although I was once someone who thought the intellectual life of universities was a kind of punicak of achievement, I don't know now if I am sorry if they fail. I think they are making society worse.

Michael Gove once said "we've had enough of experts" and everyone scoffed.

But he had a point in terms of a class of people thinking their political views were the only ones that mattered and they knew best.

It is becoming more and more apparent how distortion and manipulation of data and information without accountability is having real world negative consequences because basic critical thinking and accountability isn't ALSO being applied.

Universities seem to be massively behind the curve with this realisation and understanding of its social impact and consequences. Perhaps because it's them that have deliberately set up this system of status over substance and they are integral to it.

I was never a fan of Gove and the original comment context was farcical in many ways particularly in hindsight of what happened next from listening to people who weren't either experts or people with a clue. Gove's problem is he is actually super clever but lacks life experience in certain areas and over estimated his ability and knowledge in dealing with Europe. He and all his Brexiteer mates missed one particularly crucial detail that others did identify - NI. And he assumed that's they'd be people with much more ability would come through to forge a post Brexit future. Which of course never happened in part because those with a ability were culturally alienated.

My overall point being that the divisiveness of everything and the way in which sections of society have become arrogant and out of touch with no accountability IS the central issue of all our current politics. Large numbers of stakeholders (aka The General Public) were dismissed as not being important/ having anything worth saying whilst arrogant middle and upper classes (of all political persuasions) thought they knew better and didn't have to listen.

Universities are really the epitome of the whole mess and problem. And that's also why they will end up sucked up into the backlash to the extent they will. Theyve left themselves vulnerable because they've forgotten the essential tennant and principal of education to critically think and constantly revisit and revise your thinking in case you have missed something rather important a d crucial.

They deserve everything they have coming in my honest opinion. It's unfortunate that it's likely that my son will be in the cohort that ends up most effected in a few years time.

It is dreadful.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 10:06

stickygotstuck · Yesterday 09:28

That's my general feeling.

Speaking from a purely practical (and somewhat urgent) perspective, I find myself unable to advise DD on next steps after college.

She's in Y12 and considering whether she should go to University. And I don't know what to say.

She's one of those kids who is not sure what she wants to be when she grows up and she is emotionally not as mature. But she'd probably benefit hugely from the relative independence of uni for the first few years as a young adult

She's thankfully safe form being influenced by gender woo now, after gentle conversations with me after events at high school and applying her own critical thinking. However, she's very much afraid of saying anything to her friends when the topic comes up, as they all seem uncritically genderist. (This includes not speaking up when a hobby group cancelled an event because it was extremely tangentially related to JKR. Other than rolling her eyes and telling me how stupid they were.)

I worry about how she'd fare at uni surrounded by such types (I did show her that Maeve Halligan clip BTW).

Off to Liverpool uni open day soon. If anyone has any insider info about things there I'd be grateful for any insights. Other candidates are Newcastle and Manchester. And perhaps Durham.

I have been considering (I use the term loosely) returning to university to do my PhD, but have been hoping against hope that things would change first, for the better. I am still waiting. The only university in the UK that I would even consider attending now would be Reading, and, even now, I am still not sure. The mental and verbal gymnastics I might be expected to perform in order to get through three or four years of academia puts me right off.

I wonder how many other mature students (who pay for their own courses, unless employer-supported) have been put off as I have.---- Think about the loss of income to universities, and possible loss of programmes, due to lack of students.

OP posts:
AmaryllisNightAndDay · Yesterday 10:41

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 10:06

I have been considering (I use the term loosely) returning to university to do my PhD, but have been hoping against hope that things would change first, for the better. I am still waiting. The only university in the UK that I would even consider attending now would be Reading, and, even now, I am still not sure. The mental and verbal gymnastics I might be expected to perform in order to get through three or four years of academia puts me right off.

I wonder how many other mature students (who pay for their own courses, unless employer-supported) have been put off as I have.---- Think about the loss of income to universities, and possible loss of programmes, due to lack of students.

I wouldn't worry. As a student you will have a lot of leverage over staff. Over the last decade or so whatever you might imagine from the outside to be the normal authority structures have been throughly undermined and backchannelled by everything from DEI to student satisfaction surveys. And if you're paying for yourself then that gives you enormous leverage.

Go wherever you like and be the change you want to see!

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 10:56

AmaryllisNightAndDay · Yesterday 10:41

I wouldn't worry. As a student you will have a lot of leverage over staff. Over the last decade or so whatever you might imagine from the outside to be the normal authority structures have been throughly undermined and backchannelled by everything from DEI to student satisfaction surveys. And if you're paying for yourself then that gives you enormous leverage.

Go wherever you like and be the change you want to see!

Thanks for the encouragement! I think it's the exhausted feeling I get (and I don't even have a research proposal yet!) when I think about the policies I would have to agree to, the pronouns I would have to use for fellow students, the verbal mismanagement of words as I speak so as not to "make other students unsafe," the groups and societies I might get kicked out of, and the daily arguments with tutors and supervisor who will likely be twenty years younger than me and thoroughly indoctrinated (or at least keeping their heads down). And would they be impartial in their assessments of my work?

I never keep my mouth shut when I know that I am right (and often when I'm not!) so I anticipate weekly battles with all the RSOH crowd. If I didn't mince my words when I was in my twenties, boy you should hear me now!

Then there is the obvious worry of being targeted. And it means going back into the HE environment, which doesn't fill me with joy.

I should be able to handle all this, but do I need to? A PhD would not get me a better job, so it would only be for interest. Do I want the hassle?

ps. Oh, and pay for the hassle!

OP posts:
AmaryllisNightAndDay · Yesterday 13:26

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 10:56

Thanks for the encouragement! I think it's the exhausted feeling I get (and I don't even have a research proposal yet!) when I think about the policies I would have to agree to, the pronouns I would have to use for fellow students, the verbal mismanagement of words as I speak so as not to "make other students unsafe," the groups and societies I might get kicked out of, and the daily arguments with tutors and supervisor who will likely be twenty years younger than me and thoroughly indoctrinated (or at least keeping their heads down). And would they be impartial in their assessments of my work?

I never keep my mouth shut when I know that I am right (and often when I'm not!) so I anticipate weekly battles with all the RSOH crowd. If I didn't mince my words when I was in my twenties, boy you should hear me now!

Then there is the obvious worry of being targeted. And it means going back into the HE environment, which doesn't fill me with joy.

I should be able to handle all this, but do I need to? A PhD would not get me a better job, so it would only be for interest. Do I want the hassle?

ps. Oh, and pay for the hassle!

Edited

Well, you have years (decades?) of experience and maturity now. So you can keep your powder dry and figure out the local landscape before you decide to when and how to speak out or to act. It also depends on what kind of PhD you're planning to do, if gender theories are directly to relevant to your research then you could choose your supervisor accordingly and avoid those whose publications are full of queer theory and woo-woo. Especially if you are paying then you can interview them!

Policies are usually worded so as not to pin themselves down to meaning anything either way.

As a student yourself you will be in a strong position to make a fuss about whatever makes you feel safe and validated - except if you are teaching undergraduates. You can terrorise the staff and other PhD students with your own views on gender but you are not allowed to offend anyone with lower academic status than your own because that will be treated as bullying. Blimey. I didn't realise I genuinely believe it works that way until I typed it out. But I do.

Though if the mere thought of HE makes you tired already then it's probably not worth it. A PhD is a long hard slog even for the most enthusiastic!

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 13:54

Just FYI, from what I have been able to find so far, the following HE/HE adjacent institutions have recently signed up to Stonewall's new Proud Employers scheme. There will undoubtedly be more as I dig deeper.

University of Greenwich
https://www.gre.ac.uk/articles/public-relations/university-of-greenwich-recognised-as-stonewall-trailblazer2

University of Brighton
www.brighton.ac.uk/about-us/your-university/equity/equality-charters-and-benchmarking.aspx

The James Hutton Institute
https://www.hutton.ac.uk/the-james-hutton-institute-an-internationally-renowned-research-centre-dedicated-to-addressing-the-challenges-posed-by-the-climate-and-nature-crises-is-delighted-to-announce-that-it-has-been-accredi/

If you want to see the "full list" of employers I have found so far (not collated yet):

'Educate, motivate, and inspire lawmakers' - Stonewall's New 'Proud Employers' scheme and strategy | Mumsnet

OP posts:
stickygotstuck · Yesterday 17:37

Thanks for your thoughts @BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth .
May I ask what is it about Reading that makes it a contender for you?

I am watching the Educate, Motivate thread already 😉.

I wish I thought Ike @AmaryllisNightAndDay but, like Bridget, I think the mental gymnastics around language would make my head spin and I would find it impossible to keep it up. The hyper vigilance would finish me off at my age!

Not only would DD & uni be affected by all this, but also me & my work. Which is even more serious, as I need to change jobs and sadly education is probably the only sector where I stand a chance of finding employment.

@RedToothBrush , can I ask how old is DS? Do you think things will have changed enough for the better by the time it's his cohort's time?

RedToothBrush · Yesterday 17:41

stickygotstuck · Yesterday 17:37

Thanks for your thoughts @BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth .
May I ask what is it about Reading that makes it a contender for you?

I am watching the Educate, Motivate thread already 😉.

I wish I thought Ike @AmaryllisNightAndDay but, like Bridget, I think the mental gymnastics around language would make my head spin and I would find it impossible to keep it up. The hyper vigilance would finish me off at my age!

Not only would DD & uni be affected by all this, but also me & my work. Which is even more serious, as I need to change jobs and sadly education is probably the only sector where I stand a chance of finding employment.

@RedToothBrush , can I ask how old is DS? Do you think things will have changed enough for the better by the time it's his cohort's time?

End of primary. I suspect it will take 7 or 8 years for the house to fall down so to speak.

stickygotstuck · Yesterday 17:43

Thanks @RedToothBrush , he might be okay then, fingers crossed.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 17:46

stickygotstuck · Yesterday 17:37

Thanks for your thoughts @BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth .
May I ask what is it about Reading that makes it a contender for you?

I am watching the Educate, Motivate thread already 😉.

I wish I thought Ike @AmaryllisNightAndDay but, like Bridget, I think the mental gymnastics around language would make my head spin and I would find it impossible to keep it up. The hyper vigilance would finish me off at my age!

Not only would DD & uni be affected by all this, but also me & my work. Which is even more serious, as I need to change jobs and sadly education is probably the only sector where I stand a chance of finding employment.

@RedToothBrush , can I ask how old is DS? Do you think things will have changed enough for the better by the time it's his cohort's time?

Sticky, the only reason for Reading is that they hired Jo Phoenix after her appalling experiences, and seem to be happy for her to just do her thing there. At least I haven't heard anything to the contrary. This gives me a tiny bit of hope for the sector. I'm afraid it's just that simple/shallow.

Obviously if I were going to pursue a doctorate, I would have to study wherever the supervisor is, because it's about the research, rather than the institution. But, I think there are just too many mental barriers for me at the moment, and Amaryllis is right: just thinking about starting something up, knowing the issues, makes me think it's probably not the right time for me.

OP posts:
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 17:52

AmaryllisNightAndDay · Yesterday 13:26

Well, you have years (decades?) of experience and maturity now. So you can keep your powder dry and figure out the local landscape before you decide to when and how to speak out or to act. It also depends on what kind of PhD you're planning to do, if gender theories are directly to relevant to your research then you could choose your supervisor accordingly and avoid those whose publications are full of queer theory and woo-woo. Especially if you are paying then you can interview them!

Policies are usually worded so as not to pin themselves down to meaning anything either way.

As a student yourself you will be in a strong position to make a fuss about whatever makes you feel safe and validated - except if you are teaching undergraduates. You can terrorise the staff and other PhD students with your own views on gender but you are not allowed to offend anyone with lower academic status than your own because that will be treated as bullying. Blimey. I didn't realise I genuinely believe it works that way until I typed it out. But I do.

Though if the mere thought of HE makes you tired already then it's probably not worth it. A PhD is a long hard slog even for the most enthusiastic!

Oh, yes, it's decades! I do think you're right about the slog. If it were really something I needed to do, I would do it, and manage. For example, I am expecting ready for issues to arise as I get older and perhaps start clashing with the care and accommodation the NHS loosely calls "single sex" and I will fight that, and I will sue them if necessary. Things like that are non-negotiable for me. Putting myself through that kind of stress just to do a degree I don't need? Not so much.

OP posts:
stickygotstuck · Yesterday 17:55

Bridget, your reasoning re. Jo Phoenix seems sound to me.

(As does your thinking on the wisdom of putting yourself through the wringer for an unnecessary degree IMO, if it helps!)

RedToothBrush · Yesterday 17:56

Hmm not sure. That's post election and whatever government we get I think will be a car crash for unis for a variety of reasons.

ParmaVioletTea · Yesterday 17:59

when I think about the policies I would have to agree to, the pronouns I would have to use for fellow students, the verbal mismanagement of words as I speak so as not to "make other students unsafe," the groups and societies I might get kicked out of, and the daily arguments with tutors and supervisor who will likely be twenty years younger than me and thoroughly indoctrinated (or at least keeping their heads down). And would they be impartial in their assessments of my work?

I think this is a very catastrophising way of thinking about it. As I said upthread (or was it another thread), I am in a woke department at a woke university, but I suspect that many of my female students are at base, pretty terfy, if they thought about it. They are "kind" to the male students among the who think they are women, but they treat them like pets/gay male friends.

I think if you got past their initial "Oh they are vulnerable and brave" responses to male trans-identified students, you might find that your conversations are heartening.

And as for interacting with tutors, again, we're always interested in rational, logical arguments. If you're doing an MPhil/PhD (you generally start with the MPHil in the humanities at any rate) you'll mainly interact with your first & second supervisors, plus other postgrads. They will be a mix of domestic and overseas students - and most overseas students are too focussed on getting by and getting through to dabble in TRA luxury beliefs.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 18:31

ParmaVioletTea · Yesterday 17:59

when I think about the policies I would have to agree to, the pronouns I would have to use for fellow students, the verbal mismanagement of words as I speak so as not to "make other students unsafe," the groups and societies I might get kicked out of, and the daily arguments with tutors and supervisor who will likely be twenty years younger than me and thoroughly indoctrinated (or at least keeping their heads down). And would they be impartial in their assessments of my work?

I think this is a very catastrophising way of thinking about it. As I said upthread (or was it another thread), I am in a woke department at a woke university, but I suspect that many of my female students are at base, pretty terfy, if they thought about it. They are "kind" to the male students among the who think they are women, but they treat them like pets/gay male friends.

I think if you got past their initial "Oh they are vulnerable and brave" responses to male trans-identified students, you might find that your conversations are heartening.

And as for interacting with tutors, again, we're always interested in rational, logical arguments. If you're doing an MPhil/PhD (you generally start with the MPHil in the humanities at any rate) you'll mainly interact with your first & second supervisors, plus other postgrads. They will be a mix of domestic and overseas students - and most overseas students are too focussed on getting by and getting through to dabble in TRA luxury beliefs.

Edited

I think this is a very catastrophising way of thinking about it.

I think it is entirely possible that you are right, but as I said previously, it's not a "must do" - it's just a "thinking about it " and I'm not willing to put myself into that kind of possible situation if I don't have to. For my health and my job, yes, I will. If it becomes imperative that I pursue another degree, then I'll have to take a leap of faith that it will be a normal experience.

Sticky was asking about universities. It was an example of what I was thinking about. That's all.

OP posts:
ParmaVioletTea · Yesterday 19:09

If you're really interested, have a look at a few places, and maybe see if there any seminars or research events in your area which are open to interested members of the public - you'd be surprised how accessible a lot of university research seminars can be.

Or have a wander around the buildings of the department you're interested in - again, during office hours, universities can be pretty open - not completely, but enough to read noticeboards etc to get a flavour.

Or have a look at the websites of academic staff in the area you want to research, and see what they say, what they've published. You can get a pretty good idea about their interests/opinions/beliefs from their publications.

I suppose what I'm saying is that while there are off-putting institutional headlines, individual academic staff are different. And the combination of the Forstater, Phoenix and FWS cases means that we are not as vulnerable as I was about a decade ago when I, in company with several others, faced disciplinary action.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 19:39

ParmaVioletTea · Yesterday 19:09

If you're really interested, have a look at a few places, and maybe see if there any seminars or research events in your area which are open to interested members of the public - you'd be surprised how accessible a lot of university research seminars can be.

Or have a wander around the buildings of the department you're interested in - again, during office hours, universities can be pretty open - not completely, but enough to read noticeboards etc to get a flavour.

Or have a look at the websites of academic staff in the area you want to research, and see what they say, what they've published. You can get a pretty good idea about their interests/opinions/beliefs from their publications.

I suppose what I'm saying is that while there are off-putting institutional headlines, individual academic staff are different. And the combination of the Forstater, Phoenix and FWS cases means that we are not as vulnerable as I was about a decade ago when I, in company with several others, faced disciplinary action.

I'm glad you are feeling more positive in your situation. Surely it can only get better?

I've done the whole scoping exercise, checking out possible institutions, and talking to prospective supervisors, previously, when I did my masters and then my MBA, so I'm quite happy doing it all again, but I want to be sure it's worth my time and money. I also worked in HE for twenty years (a while back), and was glad to see the back of it just as all this nonsense started. So, I don't have great memories of the HE sector. But, perhaps time for another look, as you say. I'll give it some thought.

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · Yesterday 19:57

Under the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 (HEFSA), universities are required not only to take reasonably practicable steps to secure lawful speech and academic freedom, but also to maintain a code of practice governing matters relating to freedom of speech. Among other things, that code must set out procedures governing events, meetings and other activities.

One curiosity of Oxford’s code, however, is the degree of discretion it appears to place in the hands of the Proctors. Despite stating that no member of the University may “disrupt or obstruct any of the teaching or study or research… of its members, or its officers, employees and agents, including by obstructing the lawful exercise of freedom of speech by any of those persons”, it then adds that it “shall not be a disciplinary breach to engage in protests permitted by the Proctors”.

Given the remarkably limited guidance accompanying this exception, a great deal appears to turn on the judgment of the Proctors themselves.

What, then, did Oxford’s Proctors allow — and perhaps more pertinently, what should they have allowed?

Fortunately, the Office for Students already provides a framework for answering that latter question. In Regulatory Advice 24 (RA24), the regulator sets out how universities should comply with their free speech duties under HEFSA. While recognising that peaceful protest is itself a legitimate exercise of freedom of speech, the guidance also makes clear that “protest must not shut down debate”, and that it is unlikely to be reasonably practicable for a university to permit, without restriction, protest that disrupts speaker events through the “heckler’s veto”.

The fact that during the first lecture Foran was called a “bigot” and a “transphobe” may well constitute lawful, albeit unpleasant speech. But the protester’s subsequent request for audience members to join him in walking out, delivered from the front of the lecture hall, was not so much a criticism of Foran’s ideas as an attempt to persuade attendees to withdraw their participation from the event itself.

Foran’s subsequent warning to the Proctors that he would not continue the series if the same thing happened again should at least have alerted them to the possibility that future protests might not be confined to the expression of disagreement, but could seek to interfere with the talks themselves.

In such circumstances, RA24 expects universities to have processes for the timely assessment of risks to controversial events, with the purpose of putting in place steps that allow those events to go ahead, securing not just the right to protest, but the rights of students and others to hear an academic speak.

So were protests up to and including a “die-in” authorised by the Proctors, and if so on what terms? If they authorised protest outside the venue, subject to conditions preventing obstruction or interruption, Oxford surely needs to explain what steps it took to ensure those conditions were respected, given that disruption nevertheless occurred. But if they took — or were contemplating taking — the unusual decision to authorise protest inside the venue during the lecture, including a proposed “die-in”, by activists who had already urged attendees not to platform the speaker, that would be much harder to justify, since the risk of obstruction, intimidation of attendees, delay and interference with the audience’s ability to hear the speaker was clear and foreseeable.

From a much longer detailed article by former member FSU and now Communications Officer for the Committee for Academic Freedom

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-screaming-spires/

TempestTost · Today 03:01

The thing that strikes me though is that the gender stuff is only thf most obvious symptom of the problems with universities.

I'm also in the midst of having kids at the age they are deciding what to do. One attended for a year but found it so out of touch though she enjoyed the reading. She's been working the last year and a bit and is now planning on taking a diploma which she can turn into a degree with only two years at the university. The fact that the college that gives the diploma is much more practically focused is a big part of the appeal for her. Not so much because she doesn't see value in thf abstract, as the people seem much less insufferable.

IwantToRetire · Today 03:32

TempestTost · Today 03:01

The thing that strikes me though is that the gender stuff is only thf most obvious symptom of the problems with universities.

I'm also in the midst of having kids at the age they are deciding what to do. One attended for a year but found it so out of touch though she enjoyed the reading. She's been working the last year and a bit and is now planning on taking a diploma which she can turn into a degree with only two years at the university. The fact that the college that gives the diploma is much more practically focused is a big part of the appeal for her. Not so much because she doesn't see value in thf abstract, as the people seem much less insufferable.

I've been looking for the source. which I cant find, but I heard quite a long discussion on the radio about how more and more young people are now doubting the value of universities. Partly cost, partly not seen as that linked to gaining work.

It didn't cover that much about how much if at all students gained or even enjoyed being at university.

Thanks to Blair's not thought through concept of the country would be improved if everyone went to university, whatever value it had in the past has been undermined by courses needing to be income generating.

Typical of Blair just to see being a Graduate as some sort of status symbol, indicating being "better" educated, with out thinking about the actual process and content.

WarriorN · Today 06:12

FernandoSor · 07/06/2026 12:03

Whoever wrote this has never worked in the entertainment industry/theatre/music. Universities are terfy in comparison.

I agree.

FITA are doing a great job though and working to force change

tbe ACE recently re wrote something significant and it was very different as a result.

It will be on Denise Fahmy’s Twitter (sorry, shouldn’t really be mn right now!)

WarriorN · Today 06:13

Universities MUST change as it is them that train teachers. Some are extremely captured. Text books have been written that they all use that centres trans stuff in eyfs.

so you’ve a huge cohort of teachers who really do think the trans stuff is real and how to include it in the curriculum

GreenAllOver · Today 06:45

GirlsInGreen · 07/06/2026 12:11

I think you're absolutely right about Universities being amongst the last public institutions to move back to sanity. Its really depressing.
I read a wonderful article that popped up on my twitter feed a week back opining how young women in particular prop the ideology up.

The wonderful Maeve Halligan said the same recently in an interview. I don't know how that gets changed in the short term tbh, women are empathetic & held to account by peers/society in ways men aren't - empathy at the risk of self negation & fear at reaction - what's to be done?

My DD (grades allowing) may go to Oxford this year, I mention it because I asked her if she'd be inclined start a Women's Society much like Maeve,Thea & Serena have at Cambridge - it was just a question not a suggestion on my part.

It was her physical reaction that 'upset' me more than her answer - she kind of coiled back & her eyes went rabbit in the headlight wide "fuck no Mum, have you read what they've been through & are still going through up there? I just want to get my degree & not end up a social pariah - if im asked what I believe, i'll be honest, so i might well end up cancelled anyway - but im not putting myself up against the wall !"

Everyone in her friendship group is a Terf. All would be terrified to rock the boat at Universities, they're all smart enough to know the first through the door gets shot & simultaneously know if someone doesn't go first nothing will change.

She was 7 when I first became aware of 'all this'. I've done all the things women here have done, public meetings, raised money, met & made many life long friends, wrote letters, just talked to people. Things are & have changed. But a dark corner of myself feels a guilt & dread at being asleep at the wheel for so long & now my daughter & her generation are left with the mess to try & navigate.

I dont have an answer, just thought i'd say how its looks in this house with a young woman about to start University. Grim.

I have a dd going to university next year. She recently tested the waters by asking a close friend, who had just said how awful JKR was, if she’d read her essay. The answer was recoil - no, how could anyone ready something so awful.

Dd is very clear that she will ruin her university experience, lose any friends she has made and be socially ostracised if she even mildly questions gender ideology. She feels that having a mum who does so is risky, and sees it as a weird thing that goes against my usual liberal views.

She has a lot of trans peers (all teenage girls) who require constant reassurance (for them) and outrage (about things like single sex sport at school). She spends a lot of time supporting them. They see gender critical views as a personal attack, and they tend also to be autistic and / or depressed and /or with an active eating disorder. So they are not able to be proportionate or reasoned about any of this, and there are a lot of threats of self harm and suicide. It’s no wonder dd feels unable to be anything other than endlessly kind and agree with them.

ParmaVioletTea · Today 08:23

WarriorN · Today 06:12

I agree.

FITA are doing a great job though and working to force change

tbe ACE recently re wrote something significant and it was very different as a result.

It will be on Denise Fahmy’s Twitter (sorry, shouldn’t really be mn right now!)

Basically, Arts Council England has rewritten their central policy document to taker the focus back to excellence.

I was having dinner with some arts production bods the other day, and they applauded this.