Does a woman’s homeless shelter have to be single sex?

[mehday]

There’s a charity in my city which seems to be in partnership with the council to provide drop ins, food and emergency beds, including one advertised as a women’s shelter. I was looking through their info for volunteering possibilities and they state that anyone identifying as female is welcome.

It has put me off a bit to be honest but I also wondered if it’s still OK to do this, ie can refuges make this choice? If they don’t state they are single sex but instead subscribe to gender identity and advertise this, is this then OK and within the law?

if you are in the UK the answer is no.

It is in law a mixed sex shelter

Not sure that would be legal would it?

I mean if it says it's for women?

Does a woman’s homeless shelter have to be single sex?

Yes, otherwise it's 'just' a homeless shelter not a women homeless shelter. If something claims to be single sex it needs to be single sex.

... otherwise it's likely to be discriminating against women, as an effectively mixed shelter with (presumably) mixed washing/toilet/sleeping facilities will significantly disadvantage homeless women compared to men.

This comes up many, many times!

As FWR threads so often say if the word women / woman are used then it is single sex. This has always been the case prior to the Supreme Court ruling under the single sex exemptions within the EA.

The problem was and still is that too many people subscribed to Stonewall training which wrongly told people that if someone "identified" as female they could access women only services.

Many refuges are women only under the SSE, but this doesn't mean they dont also offer services to men, and TW.

The point is, and always should have been that service providers must be clear if their service is women only or trans inclusive.

That was the basis of Roz Adams taking her employers (I cant even remember now which women's groups in Scotland it was) that as the providers of a service that must be honest to those they are providing the service to. So even though she believed in trans inclusive services, she did not accept that she should life to those seeking support.

The reality is the actual law has always been there.

The problem was and still is that too many people, including politicians decided to believe Stonewall and others.

Not just to "be kind" but because as always women's rights are not considered important.

You could always just ask the charity or the council what their policy is.

And see if they answer with mumbo jumbo or are clear about whether it is women only or trans inclusive.

For clarity:

Many refuges are women only under the SSE, but this doesn't mean they dont also offer services to men, and TW, but separately.

But is it "claiming to be single sex" if it says anybody identifying as female is welcome?

AIUI employers have to provide separate changing rooms and washing/toilet facilities for male and female employees, but service providers do not have to provide separate spaces for people using their services unless they are described as being "single sex".

Is a "women's shelter" that allows in men a single sex service in the first place?

I'm aware that the Supreme court suggested that it might be indirect discrimination against women, but it seems to me to be a whole can of worms still...

No it is not because the word female, woman, ladies, are sex based words.

So it is offering a single sex service.

It doesn't really matter what it "claims". The question to answer is whom does it exclude?

If it applies any different admission criteria to men than to women then it's unlawful unless it's completely single sex (and excludes men entirely.)

Imagine thinking, “I should volunteer at the women’s homeless shelter”
no, wait

Yes bc if it is admitting some men (TW) and not all men it is discriminating against men who don't identify as women.

If its admitting "some men" ie TW then it isn't a women's single sex service.

Not sure why this keeps having to be repeated.

If it is a women's service the Supreme Court ruling has made it clear that it means biological females.

And as I said up thread this has always been the fact under the EA.

How many times do we have to go through.

Obviously some organisations will try and roll out the Stonewall training falsehood.

I just dont understand why FWR as a whole (if it were possible) cant move on, and not keep repeating.

There is the fact that female means sex.

That is now the law.

There is another fact that some people are trying to say this isn't true.

Surely on FWR we dont have to keep pandering to men and handmaidens who are lying.

Either it is single sex - biological or it isn't.

Either way it should be truthfully advertised.

I believe councils have a legal obligation to ensure the safety of anyone using a council facility, and putting homeless men in a shelter with homeless woman would be placing women in physical danger. So it would have to be single sex surely, plus you can't identify as female, it's a biological category, so you either are female or your not.

Imagine a place advertising itself as a women's homeless shelter not actually being single sex.

If both sexes are welcomed in, it is no longer a women's shelter, is it?

if it is advertised as a woman's shelter it has to be for biological women

ig it is including TW as well - they are men then they can't use the descriptor women , it is then a shelter for homeless people

the charity sector in the UK is almost entirely captured. Your best bet is to approach the trustees rather than the staff as it is the trustees who have the responsibility to ensure the charity is legally compliant. You can find them listed on the charity commission website

We have "inclusive" homeless shelters for women in Ireland
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41222173.html.

Note how the perpetrator is referred to as she/woman/hairdresser throughout.

Well, absolutely, that’s what I did think. I specifically wanted to volunteer at a single sex facility for women. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

Thanks for all the thoughts on this, I think it’s worth me emailing the trustees as advised up thread. We do have a very captured council here and there has been a lawsuit fairly recently. I think they’re still operating under the impression that they can define woman however they like so they aren’t specifically stating it’s single sex. Indeed, they state the opposite when they say they will include those identifying as female. However, i guess the use of the word woman is wrong and that’s what they need to be told.
I do inderstand that it’s none of my business and I could walk away, but I’m a woman in this city too - What if I needed their services?

Absolutely you should challenge it. Women are very unlikely to want to share sleeping and washing facilities with a strange man. This is exactly the scenario we fought the case for.

Good luck, OP. It might be that they refuse to shift, in which case the only solution would be to take a lawsuit. Unfortunately, that couldn't come from you, it would have to come from a homeless man who felt he was discriminated against, which is unlikely to happen. Or if the worst happened, and a homeless woman was assaulted by a male in the shelter, then she could probably take legal action on the basis that they'd failed to safeguard her properly. But homeless people are not really in a situation to be taking legal action.

Does a women’s homeless shelter have to be single sex?

yes.

Not quite correct as that is not the only avenue. a registered charity they must not operate outside their objectives which is likely provision of services for women.

Furthermore they must not use funds they have raised or received for any activity outside of their objects, ergo for services to people who are not female.

If they do cater for men then they are not a woman's shelter and cannot call themselves one.
If they use the sse to exclude men then they must exclude all men even those who claim a trans identity or have a grc.
So @mehday if they claim to be a womens shelter they must exclude all men including transwomen

I think you have misunderstood.

A domestic violence project may have a number of services that are not run together but offered as stand alone services ie

one that is women only (single sex)

one that is for men

one of trans, LGB or whatever.

So obviously the women only single sex support service is women only as has always been standard.

If you are saying that their written constitution doesn't reflect this range of service, that is another issue.

Its worth pointing out for those who are not aware, that when it became clear that some men needed DV support, nobody said as they did to women well you will just have to set up your own service and as men suffering DV you are best situation to create an appropriate one, everyone said that women should take this support service on. Ditto rape.

On a different point, just wondering if OP is in the US because of the use of the word shelter.

If it is the US then most of this thread is irrelevant!