Good Law Project to report Sex Matters over 'deviant' remark

[IwantToRetire]

In its assessment of the EHRC guidance, Sex Matters took issue with the following phrase: "It is unlikely to be either practical or appropriate to approach any particular individual to make enquiries about their sex in relation to facilities, such as toilets, which are incidental to the primary service.”

The sex-based rights group responded in a publication entitled <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/lLjDq/sex-matters.org/posts/updates/sex-is-not-special-category-data/?ref=ed_latest" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">"Sex is not a 'special category' data", saying: "There is no legal basis for this instruction, which in effect licenses men to enter women’s facilities and claim that it is inappropriate, possibly unlawful and a breach of their human rights to challenge them."

The group further stated: "Telling staff supervising single-sex spaces that they must second-guess themselves when they become aware of a man engaging in the deviant behaviour of accessing a female-only space, or risk breaching data-protection law, will lead to unwanted conduct related to the protected characteristic of sex that is likely to meet the definition of harassment in the Equality Act. It 'violates a person’s dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating, or offensive environment'."

From article at https://www.thenational.scot/news/26143769.good-law-project-report-sex-matters-deviant-remark/
and at https://archive.is/lLjDq

There is only one movement that is reaching the end of the road, and it isn’t the gender critical one.

But aren’t we told that words can mean whatever people want them to mean? It’s like “woman” has a social association for adult human female, but we’re told that word can mean lots of other things. How can TRA then get upset when the meanings of other words are then expanded?

Chapeau to Sex Matters. JM going off on one without stopping to think. The looney tune has crashed himself into the painted tunnel.

It’s quite made my morning.

@Baileyonice you need to learn definitions of norm, trend and deviate. If you knew these terms you would understand that 100% of something is not a trend nor bigoted. It’s a position so undeniable you can clearly make laws to safeguard against it.

Will you deviate from your norm of not answering my first post of 05.53? The trend, so far, has been no.

AI Overview

"Yes, deviancy and perversion are heavily and frequently associated in social and public contexts. While they have distinct roots, society often uses them interchangeably to describe behaviors that diverge from established cultural or moral norms." 1, 2, 3]

I'm wondering if I should include the Good Laugh Project in future gardening threads. They do such good work in clarifying that the law is not what they would like it to be.

Words have common social associations that more uncommon associations won't save them from.

You mean like the word "woman ?"

Well, that's a spectacular own goal

I can assure you I have never in my entire life, let alone 'regularly' 'screech[ed] that trans people are dangerous perverse predators from the roof tops on these pages', either from the rooftops or on these pages.

It looks like you have to invent things we haven't actually said in order to have the rattling good argument you think you are having.

It’s perfectly reasonable to say that males using women’s toilets is deviant (or illegal, or unreasonable, or bad or several other adjectives) behaviour. That stands regardless of what gender the males identify as.

It’s not at all the same as saying that males who identify a certain way are inherently deviant etc.

I like that they used the word deviant.

Non-deviant reasons a male might be in the women's toilets: to clean it, to mend it, or to use it as they are a child and accompanied by their mother. (And where have we seen those arguments used before)

Deviant reasons- the men we see reported on the Internet both in news and those photos on X and Reddit supplied by the men themselves.

It's as if words have actual meanings

Anyway..... the GLP are going to complain to the Charity Commission, so let's hope that the Charity Commission has a proper grasp of the meaning of 'deviant' in context, and in a formal style of writing.
Other people's variations on the theme are very interesting, but irrelevant.

Yes, to the normal practice for admitting male cleaners and maintenance staff as well as young male children in toilets.

I love that GLP and baileyonice can't accept that the word "men" doesn't mean trans woman

Some men are male. Get over it!

This is another example of TRAs causing harm to the people they purport to protect. Their intervention broadcasts the belief that SM and those who support SM believe trans people to be deviants. The trans umbrella is big. Upon hearing this message some will get angry/ aggressive, others will dispair etc. but it won’t do any good.

In the mean time, the majority of people involved with SM continue to hold no animosity towards people with trans identities, they simply want to preserve the single sex spaces.

JM is just rage baiting. Without this, everything would settle down and everyone, bar a few activist, would get on with doing what is needed to ensure the system works. Trans advocates would switch to fighting for suitable third spaces etc. He, and others like him seem invested in fuelling hatred and division.

Bailey seems to be occupied with repeatedly kicking their own leg out from under them.

We say men 'can use the loophole to behave badly'
TRAs go mad saying 'that's transphobic'
We say 'we never mentioned trans people at all, that was your link not ours'

I do love it when TRAs throw themselves into a muddy hole and blame feminists for 'hatred'.

It is the Bike Meme in real time

He’s absolutely invested in that, for GLP but I think he’s pretty unhinged in general.

And presumably won't help the GLP either.

Exactly what I was thinking! I don’t know why he’s getting his kimono in a twist over this reference to deviant men - I mean, we all know TWAW, surely?

One could also reasonably say that a MAN found to be in a female facility without good reason.

is perverting common law principles

I think it is more subtle than that. The act of a man entering a women's toilet in a service may or may not be illegal depending on a variety of factors. Deviant is a better word.
IANAL

Women seeing men in women's spaces or who say they want to go into women's spaces is going to make 99% of women think those men are creeps.

No matter the language used to describe it.

Edited to add; unless man is a cleaner or plumber and has a legitimate reason for being there - but women can then decide whether or not to enter as there's always a clear sign stating a male may be present in that situation.