Gender neutral toilets question

[Iriseee]

Do gender neutral toilets still need to be ceiling to floor? Just at a venue that has suddenly changed the ladies into gender neutral (no other single sex facility) but there's big gaps above and below doors and communal hand washing. I wasn't sure if it's the result of the new guidance ?

The expert on this is @keeptoiletssafe if I have correctly tagged her.

As I understand it from her posts in the past, gender neutral toilets need to be 'universal' toilets, ie. door from floor to ceiling, with no gaps, and a washing basin inside the cubicle.

today we all learned the phrase Universal Toilets and I am gonna use it :)

OP - no those toilets are neither legal nor compliant. Thats a slam dunk complaint coming their way I hope?

Name the venue we can all email them.

Are the men's still single sex? They can't have single sex for men but not for women, that's discrimination.

If you make changes to toilets they need to follow building regs. In England, from 2024 this is in Approved Document T. The Building Safety Regulator, still (just) part of the Health and Safety Executive, said to me only single sex cubicles within a single sex environment can have door gaps.

Each country has variations of this. This is the bit to quote in England:

Thanks. I challenged them. I was physically shaking. She said it was a mistake and the ladies sign was reinstated. Hurray

That was quick!

Wow. Result!

What a turn around!!

What sort of place was it if you don't want to name them?

Have they literally put the original sign back already?

It's a sort of events venue with coffee shop. I went to the toilets labelled 'Ladies' as usual. Ten minutes later someone had stuck a4 paper signs over both the ladies and gents that said 'gender neutral toilets' (on both, meaning no single sex facility available, and cubicles have huge gaps top and bottom). I was worried that this was their new policy, hence posting on here in case it was due to the new guidance.

Turns out the event space had been hired out and the external organisers had relabelled the loos for their guests. I told the venue manager that I noticed someone had labelled the ladies toilets gender neutral and she sounded frustrated and annoyed and told me that it must have been the event organisers. By the time I left they'd removed the paper signs. Great win.

Good for you. And very glad that at least one person working at the venue had her head screwed on correctly.

It's a small step in the right direction, thank you for doing this!

Thanks. I am a bog standard MNer and massive FWR lurker and would never usually put my head above the parapet. Yes venue manager's response was very pleasing. She must know the law.

Brilliant! Well done.

Well done. Thank you for being brave. 🙂

Does everyone on Mumsnet spend their time shaking and crying about everything?

Trans activists can be very dangerous to women. Threats, actual violence, tracking down employers to complain about you. Not to mention having some deeply anti social habits like throwing piss around the place, smoke bombs etc to enforce their demands.

It takes a lot of courage for women to face these extreme levels of hostility and violence

Ooo Welldone!

Oh mate, avoid Reddit. They feel unsafe and triggered when people read books near them, it's wild.

No, but from what I've read about some activists, they seem unable to leave the house often because... reasons. They really ought to try being stunning and brave once in a while, as this person has been.

There are many MANY occasions throughout my life where I would have lost my job and been socially blacklisted by raising exactly this type of concern. I have to put a roof over my head so I've kept my trap shut. So yes, speaking out about women's rights and single sex spaces feels edgy and gives me heart palpitations. Crazy isn't it! But that's where we are.

I agree, but it wasn't a trans activist the OP spoke to, it was the venue manager who's unlikely to start throwing piss or smoke bombs in her place of work.

Fwiw I think the OP did absolutely the right thing and it's great that the result was so positive.

Oh back at you.

I'm fed up with women on here painting themselves as pathetic creatures who can't go on holiday without a man, or can't stand up for themselves. It doesn't exactly help the cause of feminism.

i was wondering this 🤣