Radio 4 item EHRC code of practice

[Davros]

Coverage on at 8.10am. Should be interesting

Nonsense already about a GP practice not having room to put in an extra toilet

I like the fact that the EHRC woman pivoted to disabled peoples needs, who are more likely not to have suitable facilities than fully able men / women who don't want to use available facilities.

I liked that too!

So did I understand correctly?

If you have male and female toilets, who can use them depends on biological sex. If remodelling consider a third space which could be also a disabled toilet or changing room/toilet.

If you are a small cafe or GP surgery you can have two unisex toilets with sinks inside closed cubicles.

But that is just about toilets. For everything else that splits into male and female, eg sports or single sex wards, male or female means biological sex. Which is more important to me.

Why did they only have the views of a sad TIM and talk about discrimination towards transsexuals? No woman of any description was asked for an opinion. If only it had been Justin Webb which is probably why it wasn’t

What GP practice doesn't already have a self contained disabled facility?

Ours only has one toilet for everyone so will not have to make any changes.

I think the most likely outcome is that businesses worried about legal challenge will change the labels on the doors to make all toilets unisex and leave it at that, so we will see the removal of single sex spaces. Many of the pubs I visited in Holland recently already do this.

The guidance doesn't talk about how this is to be policed and I worry for masculine-presenting women being denied access to services because they don't look feminine enough for someone's idea of what a woman is.

I think Radio 4 are probably aiming for balance over a 24 hour period - they had Helen Joyce on one of the news bulletins yesterday (can't remember which one - 10 o'clock news maybe?)

If a toilet is a self contained with a sink inside that it's fine for it to be unisex

What they can't do is change it to mixed sex if there are 2 or 3 toilets with a sink outside

and I don't know if you're being genuine with the "masculine presenting women" thing (I'm assuming not tbh) but several women in here who present as masculine (short hair, trousers, tall) have mentioned being asked in the toilets and all have said they just they were women and carried on - because they're adults and not TRA

Yes, I thought she was really on point, talking about 8 million people who had limited or no access to public spaces.

But I was shouting at the radio that there was no representation of women’s point of view: about the safety, dignity, privacy and boundaries of half the population.

We had the obligatory trans-identified man, of course, going on and on. But no woman to put the women’s point of view.

Yes, it was The World Tonight on Radio 4 at 10pm. The segment with Helen Joyce started about 22.10.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002wkk0

I suppose that could make some sense 🤷‍♀️ I would have thought they should aim for some balance in each segment. Especially on the Today programme

The BBC doing what it always does - only seeks men's opinions on issues that concern women and girls. They have been trolling women since forever and appear to be unable to change to recognising that women are real people, not just an idea in a man's head. #DefundTheBBC

It’s on Woman’s Hour now

Reporter sounds very tense.

That’s pretty much always happens. Tg for organisations like Sex Matters making the case more clearly. And FWS.

I like that response as well, something for the future, keep the focus off the genderwangs and on people who do face discrimination. 👍

I would expect that most people won't say anything if the person's behaviour is not problematic. I don't think it's about someone with short hair being challenged - it's about the instances which have already happened where women have complained about an obvious male acting inappropriately (Darren Merager at Wi Spa for instance) and the woman was the one who was told she was in the wrong - and sometimes excluded from the facility!

But what you called ‘masc presenting women’ have been around for a lot longer than since all the trans madness started. Even when the TW were using the loos they were there. Why suddenly the worry when they have always been around?

A GP practice is also likely to have a significant number of disabled people attending who may need to use the toilet. Why should their access to a facility they need be impeded because a man in a dress doesn’t want to use the gents?

I haven't listened to the item but might the comment about lack of space in a GP's surgery have been referring to staff provision, rather than patient provision? Our surgery has one toilet for patient use: large and self-contained, which I assume is also disability accessible. I imagine there might be a toilet elsewhere for staff.

But the new guidance which presumably was the focus of the piece, only concerns service providers not employers. So the guidance has feck all to do with the staff toilets.

I heard it and no I don't think it was about staff toilets. Maybe I misunderstood but if so that wasn't made clear.

As Mary-Anne Stephenson pointed out in the interview, disabled facilities are often shared with other groups, e.g used for baby change.

If the addition of trans people meant queues at the disabled loo then service providers would have to think about adding more therefore increasing provision for the disabled.

Also services that don't currently offer disabled facilities may now be prompted to put in an accessable third space.