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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
CassOle · 15/05/2026 22:28

Yeah, we were both thinking it - Gein, the literal skinwalker.

WhatterySquash · 15/05/2026 22:29

Hoardasurass · 15/05/2026 22:25

Both buffalo bill and Norman bates were based on Ed Geen (sp) who was a very disturbed man and not an association I would be bringing up in context of frannkenstiens monster or transgenderism if I was trans

But Ed Gein is far from the only example.

WhatterySquash · 15/05/2026 22:33

(Which is of course not to say, or imply, that all transwomen are predators/dangerous/serial killers. This was known about long before transvestism was included with transgender/transexualism as some kind of "true identity" - it was understood as a male behaviour.)

Hoardasurass · 15/05/2026 22:41

WhatterySquash · 15/05/2026 22:29

But Ed Gein is far from the only example.

Yes i could name several however the creators of the characters buffalo bill/Jamie Gum and Norman bates have both admitted that they got their inspiration from gein and that is the analogy that "jane" chose to make. Considering the recent publicity around the Netflix series on gein it really wasn't the best analogy to use 😁

OP posts:
viques · 15/05/2026 22:47

Deadringer · 15/05/2026 10:27

What a load of old shit. Norman Bates took on his mother's persona to murder women because he was nuts, not trans. Bufflo Bill was possibly trans, more likely an agypnaphile, but he was first and foremost an evil murderer, why shouldn't evil murderers identify as women if they want to? Fair is fair. Frankinstein ffs. These people truly think the world revolves around them.

OMG. you mean Norman and Buffalo were like REAL people and not just fictional characters invented out of someone’s head, bearing no relationship to real live humans at all?

Honestly, next you’ll be telling me Snow White and Cinderella weren’t real girls who just had extraordinary lives, because you know what, I am finding it harder and harder to sort out what is fact and what is fiction these days. Don’t know why that is, I used to know what was what, but heck now I hear so many untruths presented as real that I am starting to doubt the veracity of my own eyes and lived experience.

Luckily I find if I beat my head against a brick wall it sorts my brain out and normal service is restored. 🙂

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/05/2026 23:16

I think that the book itself, rather than the film depictions, could resonate uncomfortably if through a lens of undergoing surgery/identifying as another gender.

How can I describe my emotions at this catastrophe, or how delineate the wretch whom with such infinite pains and care I had endeavoured to form? His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God!

And there is the consideration that a woman who had experienced a premature birth and death of that child could have flipped those memories into a man performing a female role - bringing life but also experiencing a visceral revulsion at the result - is changing sex and gender based functions, roles and expectations in the text in a way that challenges beliefs that it's all fine to do that, it's never going to go wrong, as it very much isn't all fine. Adam feeling rage at what he is and seeking to punish the parent who rejects him is also going to hit the target with that person - that love/hate, wanting to be accepted but isn't, yes, that's going to speak to them. And, of course, the doctor believing he could do it and it would be perfect, then his rejection making him the monster - that's going to be difficult, as 'does the surgeon promising me this really think I'm going to be beautiful? Or does he think I'm a hideous creature he's experimented with?'.

So many ways this can be read quite reasonably from a pro-trans viewpoint.

I do not believe that makes it transphobic, but making somebody uncomfortable because it challenges their own beliefs - yeah, this person has a valid point that could have been discussed.

Proves that Mary Shelley was a fucking amazing writer, though, creating something where her ideas can be discussed in relation to something like this, doesn't it?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 16/05/2026 09:41

How can Frankenstein be transphobic? Transgenderism wouldn't be invented for another 130-140 years later when pervy men started abusing oestrogen & getting mutilating genital surgery.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 16/05/2026 17:48

PrettyDamnCosmic · 16/05/2026 09:41

How can Frankenstein be transphobic? Transgenderism wouldn't be invented for another 130-140 years later when pervy men started abusing oestrogen & getting mutilating genital surgery.

That's where the terms of the discourse distract away from actually valid points; framing it as transphobic is applying current terminology (with all the inherent value judgements that entails) to the themes - any reader could identify with multiple characters and events in the book, but with the underlying assumptions of Trans = unfairly maligned, tortured, threatened, etc, that emotionally loaded language interferes with analysis.

It could just as easily be viewed as Victor representing Trans ideals, rather than Adam - or as being the baying mobs of the Universal Monsters franchise going after an unfortunate female who is not happy with her body and how others (men) react to her, not knowing how to speak or interact with people when they look at her being told that her body and behaviour is wrong and wicked because it doesn't match societal norms.

It's human nature to want to be the hero (heroine?) and whether anybody likes it or not, Adam and his Bride are seen as the iconic, tragic heroes thanks to the movies - nobody is going to be able to separate the two - if somebody who works in film is going to even consider the book rather than the popular culture depiction in any case.

Igmum · 16/05/2026 18:43

GreyskySexRealistsky · 15/05/2026 10:00

My favourite comment so far: "I stand with Frankenstein"

🤣🤣🤣

FrippEnos · 16/05/2026 19:42

I agree with @NeverDropYourMooncup
But as with so many things that could be be used to open up the trans debate and have a sensible discussion the trans lobby have gone straight for the drama of being transphobic.

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