AIBU to think the King's Speech ban on conversion therapy is deeply flawed because it includes gender identity?

[BlackTogetherAgain]

I’m genuinely worried about this, which has just been announced in the King's Speech. I completely support banning coercive, abusive practices that try to “pray the gay away” or punish people for being gay or lesbian.

But the way this ban is being pushed - it's clearly far more about “gender identity” than sexuality - feels like it’s going to have serious unintended (or intended) consequences for children, especially girls.

From what I’ve read (including the Cass Review), many children with gender dysphoria have other issues: autism, trauma, mental health problems, same-sex attraction, or have been heavily influenced by social media and peers.

In the past, good therapists would explore all of this with the child and family in a neutral way - “watchful waiting”, therapy to understand the root causes. The vast majority of these children used to grow out of it by adulthood. Now it seems that any therapist who doesn’t immediately affirm a child’s stated gender identity and move towards social/medical transition risks being accused of “conversion therapy”.

That chills exploratory therapy. It stops parents from saying “let’s not rush hormones or surgery, love, let’s talk about why you’re feeling this way”. It turns “affirmation only” into the only legal option.

We’ve already seen cases of detransitioners who say they were rushed and wish someone had properly explored their feelings instead. We know teenage girls are the fastest growing group presenting with this - why aren’t we allowed to ask why?

This ban risks prioritising adult trans activism over child safeguarding. It treats a contested, rapidly changing belief about sex and gender as if it’s the same settled thing as sexual orientation. It isn’t. Sex is real and immutable. Gender identity is a feeling, and feelings - especially in distressed, autistic or gay teenagers - can change.

Am I the only one who thinks we should protect gay kids from being medicalised, support mental health therapy without fear of prosecution and keep parents’ rights intact? Or have I missed something and this ban is actually watertight and safe for children?

I’d really like to hear other mums’ views on this. It feels like common sense has left the building.

@BlackTogetherAgain I think we are going to need a link to what has actually been announced, OP

I don't know how many times we need to say it but they will try every fucking snidey little way to embed gender and the mutilation and sterilisation of kids into any laws they can. We know this and have known it for years.

The King just said that the government will introduce a bill to ban conversion therapy in the next 12 months

It is solely about gender identity; it's a Trojan Horse. One of the original founders of Stonewall and lead on one of the big gay organisations wrote to the government about this years ago. These abuses are historic, they are pretty much specific to gay people, homosexuals for homosexuality, there is no evidence that they are continuing, or that any cases arising wouldn't be entirely covered anyway by existing law.

This is purely about transactivist goals, just making use of other people's history and oppression for their own agenda. Which is why the conservative govt kept looking at it, realising the pitfalls and then tossing it back in the long grass. It will be impossible to do without major caveats to prevent psychologists just en masse refusing to take gender confused kids and adults because of the risk that will be involved, to prevent parents being criminalised for caring about their child beyond just immediate mindless gratification, to prevent safeguarding. It's a weapon. And it will get 'gender identity' onto the statute books; they've been working on that for years.

Funnily enough it won't appear to prevent transactivists trying to harass and bully and nag lesbians into providing straight sex work for free as a social duty to men who identify as lesbians, with phrases like 'learn to cope', or to spare homosexual men and women from harassment and coercion to become at the very least bisexual as their recognition of sex in their sexuality is bigotry and prejudice, 'sexual racism', and must be ended. This is apparently the kind of 'conversion therapy' that is perfectly fine and good. This will harm gay rights and protections significantly. It is, like transactivism, fully opposed to the acceptance and protection of homosexual people being openly homosexual.

Hopefully it will be properly argued through the HoC and HoL who will either neuter it severely or refuse it as impossible to do without harm. It's a zombie at this point, it just keeps reanimating and staggering back, and that should say just how wrong this is. But we live in the time of the political clown show who don't believe in women and gay rights even when the supreme court affirms them. So who knows.

On the plus side, apparently by our dear leaders, laws are optional and a matter of personal choice and conscience anyway, so even if it goes on the statute books I can't see it mattering any more than the Equality Act or the SCJ does.

Edited to add: I would think it's staggered up again as it was likely a condition for particular activist donors to the Labour party prior to the election. Their being in hock to all this is likely why women and gay rights exist on paper while Bridget sits on them.

The devil will be in the detail. They will not be able to pass the legislation without a rigorous definition for what gender identity actually is and how a "change" of it can be deemed to have happened or not happened. This hasn't yet been done adequately in law.

It could be argued that any kind of transgendering process is intrinsically also, unless words are rigorously defined, a sexuality "conversion" process (ie if some parent thinks better a trans "daughter" than a gay son which appears to be the motivation behind the under-age transing of the unfortunate child of Susie Green).

You would need a rigorous definitition for how to establish what a person's gender "identity" is and untangling any ideas of sexism, cultural misunderstanding and immature assumptions made by children who haven't been taught better from that, and establish at what age a child can be reasonably expected to understand and have the conscious power and confidence to reject sexist ideas about outdated stereotypes (even if they have been brought up in a very sexist household) as it is only after that point that any ideas they might have about their own gender identity can possibly be separated from such ideas. You would need to have the legislation clear and rigorous to ensure that counselling that is aimed at disentangling someone's complex psychological landscape where these issues are all mixed together, and helping that person how to exist as themselves as a whole and free and valid person, is not a "conversion practice" if it keeps open the possibility that the person might grow to accept and even love themselves in the body they were born in (whilst continuing to reject the sexist stereotypes about what that body-type might mean for any other decisions about their life) - and draw a line about how actual conversion practices might differ from that entirely valid kind of help.

It would logically, HAVE TO equally protect the right of homosexual people to not be exposed to coercive conversion attempts - with the worst of those attempts coming straight from transactivism.

Which in fact supports the SCJ and single sex spaces.

It's gonna be interesting.

Hi op, sorry not commenting on the bill but I’m curious to know if you originally posted in AIBU

It is a Trojan Horse, as stated up thread, there is no conversion therapy in respect of homosexuality allowed in this country. There are some culture's where such things are practiced and people from those culture's do live in Britain, but there are laws already on the books that can be used successfully to address such crimes, when found.
There is no need for a Conversion Therapy ban, the only one's who want it are the genderwangers, especially the 'trans' contingent.
Given how much trouble the government is in at the moment, I don't think there's much of a chance of them getting any laws passed for the foreseeable future, which would be a good thing, we have enough laws on the books to last us until doomsday.

Isn't it?
Trans ideology is so ever shifting and not based on coherent arguments, facts or science that it's going to be fascinating to watch this.

They've not only got to define all the contested terms, (gender identity, sex change, non binary etc) in rigorous legal terms which women have been asking for since forever. They've also got to openly address the desperation of trans activists to gaslight mentally vulnerable children into thinking they need a sex change and decide between safeguarding or gaslighting children.

There are countless fantastic legal minds now well versed in unpicking all this nonsense as we've seen. Contrast with the "leading" legal minds representing trans lobby groups 😂😂

If they're going to ban 'transing the gay away', which is the only conversion therapy commonly happening today then great.

If they're planning to ban an exploratory therapeutic approach to individuals with trauma, body dysmorphia including gender dysphoria and neurodivergence then it will utterly destroy the role of therapists - they are already heavily coerced into affirmation over true holistic therapy.

It is not a ban on conversion therapy, regardless of name, it is the use of harmful aggressive drugs and surgery to tran and make gay people straight or straight men ‘lesbians’.

The problem is gender identity will now need a water tight, judicial review proof definition that can be tested and proved.

that actually sounds like a real win for the gender critical here…..

No, just the feminism section :)

How do you know? The legislation hasn't been developed yet.

I agree, the moment has long passed for them to be able to use this in the way they would like effectively.

All of this. I happen to know legal minds attached to the politicians will be looking at this with forensic details…

Ww don't need a ban on conversion therapy as its already illegal and the practices that people who want 1 use as a reason are all American stories or from before they were outlawed in the uk.
What they claim are gender identity conversion therapy is really just not affirmation therapy. Nobody should ever affirm delusional thinking especially not with children.
Watchful waiting is not conversion therapy but will be outlawed under this new law and will undo the good thats come from the cass review.

On tge plus side they will have to explain exactly what gender identity is before they can protect it in law so this is going to be interesting

Vague and circular definitions are a feature of genderism (and more increasingly legislation) so I'm not convinced a Labour Bill would contain useful definitions. We have the vague and sexist language in the GRA 2004 for an example of the last Labour foray into this area.

Then it will be shot down the second it’s passed, if it ever is, which is very unlikely

AIBU to think it's outdated we still have a monarch in 2026?

I hope you're correct but look at the total shitshow that was the Assisted Suicide Bill - that rancorous nonsense went on for months with the government determined to carry out Kier's promise to Esther Rantzen despite any reasoned objections in both Houses of Parliament.

There was huge objection in the Lords to the Assisted Suicide Bill so that helped to stop it going forward at present but I'm not sure there would be such a huge objection to a Conversion Therapy Bill.

Ironically I was in full support of the assisted dying bill :)

point is it was dropped despite a general support from the country, because the detail wasn’t there and there were, I believe, loopholes.

this bill will have ALL THE SCRUTINY EVER on it. It’s not 2016. This will not sail through.

and it will never make it anyway. This government has 6-9 months in it. It does not have the time for vanity bills like this at all.

I’m also a member of Republic.

sometimes I like the pomp and ceremony though. Feels rooted in something real.

oh and!!!!

This is a double edged sword!! We can ABSOLUTELY turn this around and say Trans Affirming therapy is CATEGORICALLY gay conversion therapy

Just think about the minefield here, it's an absolute non starter

Which happens where?