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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times headline compares 'angry' young female Green voters to the manosphere

6 replies

Carla786 · 20/04/2026 19:53

I despise the Green Party but I also think this headline is poor. Women voting Green, no matter how angry, aren't likely to be nursing the kind of violent hatred of men a lot of the manosphere is towards women. When they pose the same danger to men, then the headline will be accurate- not before.

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/never-manosphere-meet-angry-young-women-vwsvpgjh5

Never mind the manosphere — meet the angry young women

New polling finds a radical female cohort passionately dislike this country and the society they live in, and will be overwhelmingly voting Green

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/never-manosphere-meet-angry-young-women-vwsvpgjh5

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TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 20/04/2026 20:04

I think the Ggnderwangers are far more dangerous that the manosphere, I agree with the gist of the article, never underestimate the perpetually aggrieved, and the colossally stupid.

"Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease.
Against stupidity we are defenceless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed- in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable, they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous."
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Muesleigh · 20/04/2026 20:10

I think he's got a point. There's a lot of concern about Andrew Tate and Tommy Robinson and the like, but the extreme leftists are not considered dangerous, probably because they are female. Green supporters may not be physically dangerous individuals, but current Green ideology would be hugely damaging to society if they ever got any real power.

Carla786 · 20/04/2026 20:17

I take the point re stupidity.
I suppose it might depend which kind of danger you're talking about.

If you rate physical attack risk as more dangerous, then manosphere is higher.

If you rate the more insidious as more dangerous (but including substantial physical risk, eg. Some aspects of TWAW) then Green is higher.

I don't think the manosphere risk should be underestimated though. It's not only risk of physical attacks by fanatics like Elliott Roger, it's also everyday misogyny faced by female teachers & peers, influence on already disturbed individuals like the Plymouth shooter too.

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PinsAndThrums · 21/04/2026 14:05

That's a great quote from Bonhoeffer @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant, which book does it come from, if you don't mind me asking?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 21/04/2026 14:54

PinsAndThrums · 21/04/2026 14:05

That's a great quote from Bonhoeffer @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant, which book does it come from, if you don't mind me asking?

It was in an article I read, not sure from where, but at the end it has this information.

-Dietrich Bonhoeffer, from ‘After Ten Years’ in Letters and Papers from Prison (Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works/English, vol. 8) Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2010.

I suppose it might depend which kind of danger you're talking about.

Bonhoeffer was talking about the Nazi regime in Germany, it didn't come much more dangerous than them, he was hung by Hitler in 1945.

Another part of his essay

Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil. This is where the danger of diabolical misuse lurks, for it is this that can once and for all destroy human beings.

There are a lot of mindless tools being crafted today, the left in general and the Green party in particular always put me in mind of this essay, it's like it could have been written today.

Carla786 · Yesterday 23:13

The Emily Lawford article in the New Statesman elaborate on this. I'm pasting some quotes I think are relevant.

“If you’re feeling overwhelmed by the Epstein file drop, do not worry, girl,” Phoebe O’Brien says in a video, facing the camera. O’Brien has bright, green eyes, three silver nose rings and cropped blonde hair. “The Epstein class want you to hate every other group,” she tells her 80,000 TikTok followers. “Migrants, brown people, poor people, disabled people, trans people.” (typical omnicause. The role race played in Epstein is unclear but it's clear the perpetrators were not only white, and people like Naomi Campbell turned a blind eye at least. Diddy too etc. As for trans - I shouldn't be surprised if some Epstein people were AGP)

It made the right-wingers who claimed to care about women and children’s safety look like hypocrites, she said. It was the billionaires who were the real problem.(again, missing the point men of ALL political stripes were involved)

This polling found that young women are 26 percentage points less likely to feel positively about capitalism than young men, and much less likely to feel the economy works in their favour.(women earn more in Gen Z average I think? Yet otoh women may be more likely to be in low paying areas in other sectors)

They also feel much more negatively towards young men than young men feel about them. (We should not overstate misogyny. Too many young men are into manosphere. But many are not. Otoh quite a lot of Gen Z men poll as anti abortion and wanting women to obey)

While this “femosphere” spans a range of tones, much of it reinforces this hostility towards men: there are misandrist dating coaches who urge women to reject men altogether.

She said she felt anxious seeing injustice and doing nothing. It was a physical sensation in the centre of her body. Perhaps this was why women were more likely to be progressive than men, she speculated. “Women tend to be a little bit more connected to their bodies and their physical sensations and emotions.” It seemed like an essentialist, even reactionary view of gender: the idea that women are emotional, physical beings, in a way men aren’t. But O’Brien said that anxiety spurred her on. “The only way I’ve found to release the negative sensation is to act.”

(I would personally agree that women may be more likely to feel distress at perceived injustice in a more physical way. This isn't necessarily bad, either, but it has to be tempered with being able to take a step back and analyse)

There are many reasons for young women to feel downcast. One in four women in England and Wales have been raped or sexually assaulted. Police record around 3,000 offences related to violence against women and girls each day. The economic outlook for all young people, meanwhile, is fairly bleak

. But, strikingly, the polling done for the New Statesman suggests more privileged women are the most pessimistic of all. Women in middle-class professions are less likely to say they feel valued by society, and are less likely to believe that if they work hard they will succeed in life when compared with their working-class counterparts. Young men are now more likely to be unemployed than young women, yet young women are far more financially cynical: they are 21 points less likely than young men to believe they will ever out-earn their parents.
(why might this be? Surely working class women don't encounter less sexism than middle class women?)

White women are more likely to feel the country is racist than non-white women.
(interesting. Some of this may be white women interpreting frustration with immigration numbers as racism : in this view, someone like Kemi is a self-hating black woman)

The lack of hope among this new wave of progressive, educated young women surprised me. In 2015, my school set up its first feminist society; we’d read Caitlin Moran and Naomi Wolf and we joined political Facebook groups, arguing with teenage boys about terms like intersectional feminism and structural racism. We talked about rape culture, Black Lives Matter, whether tanning was cultural appropriation and if shaving our armpits was a capitulation to the male gaze. But young women have become far more disaffected in the years since. After the isolation of Covid, and Western governments’ apathy over the war in Gaza, a profound pessimism has emerged that didn’t exist even a decade ago.

I spent the past few months in search of the new left-wing young women. It wasn’t difficult – they were everywhere. I went to a south London Burns Night ceilidh organised by the youth wing of the union Unison to raise money for striking NHS phlebotomists in Gloucester and National Coal Mining Museum workers in Wakefield. As it was about 80 per cent women, dancing pairs were organised by height, not gender. (“Tall, dominant, low-voiced people, you’re the leaders,” we were told.)
(rather reactionary! A bit like gender ideology)

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