Just came across this sad story (detransition)

[SwirlyGates]

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/real-life/i-told-trans-underwent-surgery-33760762?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1776106260

Sad story- surgeons ready to perform life-changing surgery, on the NHS(!) So quickly and diagnosed by GP; really?? This is awful, poor Aerin.
Hope she's now on a path to a happier life.
YL still using 'assigned at birth'

(Editor- Wayne Ankers?)

Aerin Bailey:
"If you're a woman and you feel like you don't belong, this doesn't mean you're not a woman."

That is a powerful story in a pretty decent article. I hope this gets picked up by the Times or Telegraph for wider exposure.

She's been through the wringer but she's still able to think of others. What a lovely young woman.

Woman, 34, who lived for 15 'miserable years' as a man says NHS gave her male hormones and a double mastectomy after she 'filled out two forms': 'I was a confused teenager, it was a mistake' | Daily Mail Online

This is a terrible story. And gender affirming care seems to be too quick to medicalise.. but … she used online material to give answers which would get her what she wanted. We can therefore imply she’d have done this and proceeded to medicalisation even if counselling was offered first.

How will this mess ever be unpicked if patients come in knowing what they want and what to say to get it without thinking it all through? If theyve lied on a form is anyone likely to admit this and lose their chance of treatment?

I suppose this is why original gender screening was done over many years? Given all the screaming that goes on about 2-3 year waiting lists, I doubt the TRAs will want to revert to that…

That poor girl - I’m glad she feels happier now but she should never have been put through that.

This medical scandal needs to start looking at how on earth doctors could ‘diagnose’ patients like her with no meaningful diagnostic criteria or tests.

There’s no support for detransition on the NHS. It’s a one way train. There’s no breast reconstruction, or laser hair removal for female detransitioners. Men don’t get breast reduction.

It would be a useful warning for people entering the transition pathway: if you change your mind, you are on your own, we won’t help you. You’ve made your bed, now you can lie in it, is the general sentiment.

Goodness knows how you undo a GRC.

There was a menno interview recently with a man in Scotland who had believed he was a TIM for some years before detransitioning. A sadly quite familiar story of a young gay man with trauma.

I was struck by how he explained that he had to try to work out what medical support he needed to detransition and ask for it (iirc testosterone to kick start his production of it again) because when he went to the GP and gender clinic they didn't believe he wanted to detransition really, and then had no clue what that treatment pathway could look like. It was absolutely shocking. And yet there are still ppl blindly repeating that puberty blockers are safe and reversible.

So, two forms to fill in to get your breasts removed (and at a time when the NHS is in crisis), but not the slightest thought that this could be a mistake, nor how to roll back?

Yes, gender is not fluid on the NHS, it goes from A to B without any concern that it might one day go back to A again.

It's a sad story, but it doesn't feel like the timescale was overly rushed here. Decided to transition at 16, hormones at 18 and surgery at 22. That's a lot of years to be insistent that you want the treatment.

If hormones and surgery is going to be a treatment for anybody (and the jury is very much out on whether it's beneficial or not) then I don't see how you could require a longer waiting period. Without the autism diagnosis there'd be no reason to suggest that she wasn't a "legitimate" case. At what point do you let someone make their own decision/mistakes on this?

To be fair, that's how the GRA codified gender - as a one way street.

Transexual persons, as they are called in the Equality Act 2010, who get a GRC have made a statutory declaration of their intention to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their lives.

It is possible to take hormones and have surgery without a GRC though.

That's true, but I reckon that the mindset in the NHS is still that "transition" is a one way street.

That was evidently the mindset of the legislators. Also, it is of a piece with the argument that those seeking treatment wish to be "their authentic selves". That their birth sex is wrong for them so why would they want to go back to it?

Michael was incredibly eloquent describing his incredulity that the same people who prescribed cross sex hormones had no clue what treatment he would require as part of his detransition. It was a great interview.

In addition its possible to acquire a GRC without any medical intervention. Even though medical intervention is frequently cited as part of the applicant's proof of 'living life as the opposite sex', it is not a requirement.

It may not have been rushed, but she had no therapy or counselling. They just accepted her declaration of being trans and gave her testosterone, followed by a mastectomy 4 years later. No one, NO ONE should be given permanently life altering ‘treatment’ like this without therapy to thoroughly examine their feelings and motivations. If she had been given counselling it’s highly likely her ASD would’ve been picked up (it should be screened for in every trans patient) and the whole thing avoided. Plus, all the T and surgery was given before she was 25, so still very young and with an immature prefrontal cortex. We need to do better.

Because the 'treatment' just shouldn't be allowed. 'Do no harm' and all that. People cant change sex. We shouldn't put people on drugs or give them surgeries to help them do so. The medical field wouldn't disable someone who 'felt disabled' so we shouldn't do this. Time doesn't make any difference as to how serious someone is about it - the service simply shouldn't be an option.

But would therapy help? It simply can't. And a lot of therapy in this field would just be gender-affirming so it would confirm that she was trans.

If therapy for anorexics was the same - affirming - then they'd all be having their stomachs stapled and weightloss pills within a few years. Listen to how ridiculous that sounds? Its the same thing.
As I say, no surgery or medical treatment should be allowed for trans because its nonsense. But nonsense that is extremely dangerous.

Personally I agree. I don't think that your "true self" is ever the opposite sex, but there are those who genuinely believe it helps and that counselling to discourage transition amounts to conversion therapy. It's likely that the ASD would have been picked up but I don't think it would have been a reason to "disallow" transition.

If you've got someone who's insistent and consistent for years that this is what they want and they're very distressed in their current state then I don't blame the doctors for doing what the patient asks. As far as they know they're helping and only a tiny minority regret the choice (which I also don't believe).

Until we get a lot more detransitioners going public I don't see how that's going to change.

How will this mess ever be unpicked if patients come in knowing what they want and what to say to get it without thinking it all through? If theyve lied on a form is anyone likely to admit this and lose their chance of treatment?

It is insane how GI took root in the medical community without full understanding. There is still so much ignorance of gender ideology in the medical community. Most GPs have given little thought to diagnosis, treatment, long term implications etc. SEGM is trying to correct that imbalance but fully knowledgeable professionals are a small group.

Gender clinics, by default, are staffed with healthcare professionals who are supportive of gender reassignment if not out and out advocates. Many also fail to connect the dots for their clients. I know one young man who contemplated CSHs being told once that they would make him infertile, he said that was fine, despite him being just 21, there was no further conversation, no talking through etc. Two years later he desisted and now talks of being a father.

I’ve come to believe all trans identifying youth are autistic. Emotional dysregulation, rigid and hyper focused thinking are challenging when supporting gender questioning youth, but the first step is screening for co morbidity and focusing on support for those conditions before anything else.

Yes this is the issue. The fact that she wasn’t rushed and was persistent in achieving her goal for several tears and still made the wrong decision shows that a) ‘gender’ is not innate and b) it is impossible to tell who the medicalisation is going to help because it is all down to self perception and desire, not clinical testing.

This is why the trans community hate and vilify detransitioners so much. Their existence undermines the whole premise of medical ‘transition’ as a treatment.

Until we get a lot more detransitioners going public I don't see how that's going to change.

This is why the trans community dismiss and attempt to silence them at every opportunity. Meanwhile more vulnerable kids are being encouraged to make the leap of faith into medicalisation while they are being lied to about the size of the cliff.

Another detransitioner story in the Times

https://archive.ph/BnyFP

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/gender-clinic-treatment-transgender-8nqt3h2rr

He says he's launching a Detransitioner Pathway UK on Saturday. I wish him all the best.

The NHS he dealt with seems staggeringly blasé about the treatment. The crack about his fortune in not getting castrated (although the tame euphemism was used) is gobsmacking!