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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why do activists always say "sex and gender are different" in biology-based discussions? (and any other questions MNers have have about pro-trans talking points)

59 replies

singthing · 28/03/2026 11:37

This really is a genuine question:

In any discussion where biological sex is the key factor in something*, someone always pops up with the "tell me you don't understand the difference between sex and gender" line.

I simply don't understand why this is always dropped in. Is it just someone picking from the list of approved activist comments, or is there actually some point I am missing? It never seems to actually add anything to the context of biological ability. It doesn't even function as a thought-terminating cliche....

(*It repeatedly came up in on social media this week about the IOC decision.)

OP posts:
BezMills · 30/03/2026 21:09

Haha I was going to say you said what I wanted to say with greater depth and nuance!

IDoHaveACrystalBall · 30/03/2026 21:13

@singthing gaslighting and obfuscation are literally the point of the exercise

It spreads a huge amount of confusion

Worse than that, it buys them a lot of time in terms of social policy and law.

A lot of political discourse is like this nowadays - best advice is to just ignore it.

BonfireLady · 31/03/2026 07:35

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic and @BezMills both of your posts were helpful. Thank you.

Complicated stuff, this growing up. Urgh. Glad I don't have to do it again.

Apologies for the ridiculous length of this post but hopefully it's useful.

I think it's often hard to look back and remember all of the nuances and twists of adolescence unless we make the space to do so. Unfortunately far too many professionals in education and healthcare seem to have forgotten all of the stuff that they already know about growing up when it comes to the Be Kind end of embracing gender identity as a way to explain why someone might feel uncomfortable in relation to their sex at this age. The more you take the time to remember this stuff, or get information from others to supplement your own thoughts because you don't have the relevant direct experience, the more it seems so bloody obvious that their default assumption for why a teenager might feel uncomfortable with themselves growing up should always be that it relates to the normal discombobulation of adolescence, whether that's boys and tribalism/machoism (or lack of) or girls and hyper California-girliness (or lack of).

When you then layer autism-related puberty distress (e.g. sensory issues with body changes), internalised homophobia (fear of an emerging same-sex attraction) or trauma relating to sexual assault (e.g. a girl who was raped wanting to identify out of a "weak" or sexualised body into a stronger or less curvy one, for defence) it seems yet even more obvious why such children and young adults might be drawn towards the idea that the root cause of their distress is that they are apparently in the wrong body. The only "evidence" they can ever point to for such assertions about themselves is that they don't fit neatly into sex-based stereotypical expectations. Just as AllSlugs notes above about decoding TRA speak, it always comes down to sex-based stereotypes when you unpick it. Setting aside the gender identity aspect (e.g. by completely avoiding the use of any pronouns when referring to someone who is gender questioning or already identifies as transgender), this provides an opportunity to explore why a child or young adult might feel the way they do about themselves.

If these professionals were to remember what they already knew about growing up, the additional knowledge they could then bring from their subject matter expert training could really help to expose and end this sex/gender conflation. I'm still hopeful that enough professionals in education and healthcare are starting to remember what they already know and will see the sleight of hand in the sex/gender stuff for what it is 🤞 IME while getting support for my daughter, it's possible to unlock this critical thinking by asking some key questions that tap into this knowledge. It's not been a straightforward journey by any means but it does seem to be moving in the right direction - tapping into professionals' critical thinking has been key. Rather ironically, the more I educate myself and learn from others' lived experience (just as the TRAs suggest), like the adolescent boy experiences above and Marie's thoughts on growing and settling into an awareness of being a lesbian, the easier it becomes to ask the type of questions that can do this.

One other thing I've found helpful in IRL discussions is to only ever use the word "gender" when referring to gender identity. The rest of the time I just use the word sex e.g. sex-based stereotypes. For anyone immersed in "gender critical feminism" etc, the word gender to describe such stereotypes makes sense, but to the vast majority of people, IME, it just adds to the confusion. I also never say I have "gender critical beliefs", but instead that I don't believe anyone has a gender identity. I apply similar logic by never using the word "identity" to describe anything other than gender identity e.g. I never talk about my "identity" as a woman or my daughter's "autistic identity". It's yet another Trojan horse entry point for self-ID/self-diagnosis, and all the identity politics etc that go with that. Prior to my immersion into this world I used gender as a synonym for sex and identity as a way to describe a sense of self. It took a while for me to get to this point in how I handle these conversations but it's proven a helpful way of doing things.

Tiddler1976 · 05/04/2026 14:07

It's nearly as infuriating as the, "Oh but if you really knew complicated biology and not just school level biology......." as if it's some sort of gotcha.

Personally, I give the suggestion that I should live my life according to gender stereotypes or notions of what gender is about the same level of impact on my life as what my horoscopes might say. I'll live my life and do the things I want to not to perform in a societal role as a woman, or to be perceived as a woman, I just bloody well am one. Gender identity? Pfffft.

TheKeatingFive · 05/04/2026 14:17

Tiddler1976 · 05/04/2026 14:07

It's nearly as infuriating as the, "Oh but if you really knew complicated biology and not just school level biology......." as if it's some sort of gotcha.

Personally, I give the suggestion that I should live my life according to gender stereotypes or notions of what gender is about the same level of impact on my life as what my horoscopes might say. I'll live my life and do the things I want to not to perform in a societal role as a woman, or to be perceived as a woman, I just bloody well am one. Gender identity? Pfffft.

I always ask for details of this 'higher level biology' and how it explains that men can become women? 🫠

InSlovakiaTheCapitalOfCourseIsBratislava · 05/04/2026 14:59

It’s a deep and complex interaction between hormones and chromosomes and the SRY gene and deep epigenetics that your tiny narrow minded TERF brain couldn’t possibly understand of course

I always want to say “try me” when told it’s much, much more complicated. I’ll accept that cells became a lot more complicated between GCSEs and A level when suddenly animal cells stopped being fried eggs and got golgi bodies and semi permeable membranes . But it certainly wasn’t insurmountable. I bet they don’t explain it in case it makes sense and the whole sex thing really isn’t that complicated. Apparently reptiles don’t even have chromosomes for sec expression, it’s to do with temperature. Thats amazing, and probably quite complicated, but not human biology

Easytoconfuse · 05/04/2026 16:07

MarieDeGournay · 28/03/2026 18:27

Thank you, Easytoconfuse, and there's not even a hint of offence perceived in what you saidSmile

I rejected very firmly right from the beginning were the stereotypes of what I should look like, play with, wear, aspire to, desire, etc etc.,as a girl. Dolls, dresses, boys.. no thanks.
I became a gender-non-conforming lesbian, short hair, sharp suits😎

That's my 'gender' expression.
I also have a personality, which ironically is more gender-stereotyped than my appearance - I never shook off the 'be nice, well-behaved and helpful little girl' message Mostly I don't mind - who wants to be not-nice and un-helpful?😏

I could still look like this and have a completely different personality.
Does that answer your question?

I hope you and your dear young adults navigate your way through the choppy waters of stereotyping, it sounds like you are doing a grand piloting job so farSmile

I've just read your post too StellaAndCrow, thank you.

In answer to your question:
If a form only used the word 'gender' and not sex, I'd put 'female', because it was likely to be using the word 'gender' when it really meant 'sex'.

I've never been asked my 'gender identity' on a form but if I was, I'd just ignore it - as TheKeatingFive said, 'Gender is how you interact with stereotypes of gendered behaviour. Your 'gender' is largely irrelevant to other people.'

So unless it was a form relating to research into something like lesbian identities, my 'gender identity' isn't something I would expect official forms to ask about, and I'd ignore it.

'Gender' is important to me, but 'largely irrelevant' in the grand scheme of things, whereas being biologically female is very relevant.

Thanks. I had that message too, as I dressed in my cord dungarees with long plaits, only I had parents who added to that 'as long as you're treated with respect and fairly. If not, then all bets are off.' My current favourite sweatshirt reads 'underestimate me. That'll be fun.' It's sugar pink, and the only sugar pink item of clothing I've had since my grandmother used to buy me and my feminine big sister matching apparently indestructible little lacey dresses. It's a family joke that she used to buy us matching embroidery kits too. I'd do both of them because it's one of my passions and she'd then say how much neater my sister's one was. We got extra pocket money if we could avoid laughing till she'd gone and authority think that I have a terrible relationship with it because I don't take it seriously or automatically respect it. I never considered that as anything except being me and I now realise how lucky I was.

Easytoconfuse · 05/04/2026 16:14

BezMills · 30/03/2026 21:04

Maybe I can add something asaman

Young lads are typically busy trying to establish themselves laddily with their male peers, including getting kudos from older lads. Being seen as a girl or like a girl is minus kudos and there's a time when girls are just a thing it's insulting to be compared with or associated with. Then hormones kick in and you're suddenly fascinated by girls and wish they liked you. It's very weird at first having just spent the last years professing your disgust, to now having err other feelings!

Thanks for that perspective. It seemed to me in my teens that a lot of girls went from 'boys, eugh stinky things' to 'Boys! Hunt them down! Get a boyfriend. Worry about the personality later! Single sex schools have a lot to answer for, but I think they should be segregated academically somehow'

Easytoconfuse · 05/04/2026 16:20

TheKeatingFive · 05/04/2026 14:17

I always ask for details of this 'higher level biology' and how it explains that men can become women? 🫠

Or you can talk to them about sequential hermaphoditism https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/animals-that-can-change-sex

Probably best if you don't ask if they believe they're actually a clown fish. I've seen it happen. It wasn't pretty, but oh, it was funny, because the genius in complicated biology didn't have a clue what she was talking about.

"In real life Nemo’s dad would become female (and might have even mated with his son) – Discover 10 animals that can amazingly change sex | Discover Wildlife

What animals can change sex? And why do some animals change sex? Leoma Williams explores the sex-changing talents of 10 animals

https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/animals-that-can-change-sex

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