Woman dies by euthanasia after becoming paraplegic trying to commit suicide after gang rape

[AComplicatedWoman]

This is one of the most heartbreaking news stories I have come across.

Noelia Castillo had a difficult childhood and spent much of it in care homes. She was sexually assaulted by her ex-boyfriend of four years after she had taken sleeping pills to help her sleep, and was assaulted on another occasion by several men in a nightclub. She attempted suicide in October 2022, and it left her unable to use her legs and in a wheelchair. Noelia conducted a long legal battle with her father for the right to end her life and she died by euthanasia on Thursday.

RIP Noelia. I am so sorry that your life was destroyed by these abhorrent abusive men.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/noelia-castillo-euthanasia-law-spain-b2946671.html

I haven't RTFT here but it doesn't sit right with me that someone was euthanised because they've had a shit life. Even being a paraplegic and in pain. IMO, euthanasia should be only used for people who are already dying... with chronic, terminal illness. It's to avoid them having a prolonged and painful death. It absolutely should not be used for people who are depressed, or disabled. I completely appreciate she lived in pain, but so do so many other people.
She was only 25 with a long life of trauma and mental illness. Who knows what she might have become if she was given proper care, support and treatment. Very, very sad.

& neither do you.

It's called a discussion I'm sorry you don't understand how that works.

Im not sure why, but this changes it for me. I dont know why I had misunderstood that or just assumed that she had an entire childhood of sexual abuse

Its not clear what sort of experiences she had in her parents care obviously

But the drive for her to seek euthanasia was the pain of her injuries. I thought it was that, but also the entirety of her life and her childhood and the psychological pain from that.

Im more inclined to wonder about the post rape support she had now and the post injury support she had/has around her pain.

I would have said generally Im pro euthanasia and certainly felt strongly about that in previous years. This is uncomfortable though and Im not sure why, is it her age, is it becuase she looks so vibrant and coherant?

Yes you've said this better than me

Im thinking now about timescales from the injuries as well, only 3 years on which in terms of recovery pain wise and functioning wise is not very long. People who lose limbs can take years and years to be given the right sort of support and treatment to manage pain and functioning.

Im wondering what her treating physicians were making of all this? Did they give up on her?

And I can't help but wonder whether she had the absolute best support, or whether the presumably large sums of money the state put into the court cases might have made a difference to her day to day life.

I don't think there are sufficient safeguards and support to ensure that women in a care setting who have trauma from rape (and indeed all women) absolutely cannot in any circumstances be abused. I think the loss of control requiring other people to care for you whilst knowing the statistics around sexual abuse of vulnerable / physically incapacitated women would be like a form of torture. The link from FiliA below makes for sobering reading Eighty-three percent of disabled women experience rape or abuse, often at the hands of caretakers. And without a way to report their violations, the perps frequently go unpunished

Male Carers and the Sexual Abuse of Disabled Women — FiLiA

You were the one rudely telling another poster to start another thread and not talk about particular things related to this case.

Its true about the cost of the case to the state, however, roll back a bit and the state had already agreed to end her life, they hadnt opposed her as far as I can see at the original request. The case only rolled on because the father opposed it

So this even more uncomfortable in that the decision was taken when she was only 23 and very soon after the injuries.

Yes, that's worrying they agreed to kill her so readily and so soon after significant trauma. The father sounds likely to be a POS but at least his action did mean she had a lot more time to think about her decision.

But I also take on board what others have said - it is possible to recover very slowly from physical harm such as it sounds she had. It would be interesting to know what her doctors' opinions were.

I hope she rests in peace, I do think her case should and I hope will provoke some discussion about the balance in our society between victims and perpetrators, particularly around rape, VAWG and state facilitated deaths.

Its interesting because this site (in particular) is peppered with references to people under 25, brain not fully developed, making poor decisions, shouldnt be making big decisions, needing support to know essentially whats best for them etc

And here we are with the majority of posters feeling that she absolutely knew she wanted to die and oculdnt go on and shouldnt be expected to go on. And thats in the light of significant layers of trauma.

I didn't claim to. It was you suggesting I ought to post elsewhere. There is no compulsion for anyone to have to agree with your persepctive on matters.

I do; you seem not to.

Discussions involve different points and perspectives, some of which we might not agree with, but cannot control in the way you would seem to like.You don't get to tell people were to post, and what to post.

So, because many other people live in pain, she should have just stopped moaning and got on with it? It's not a race to the bottom.

I don't think euthanasia should be an option to manage someone's pain. This lady was not dying... yes, she's had an absolutely shit life. Yes, she is disabled and living with pain. But does this qualify for her to be euthanised? At 25? Not in my mind, no. I'm all for speeding up death for someone who is facing a slow, drawn out and inevitable death, but being used as an option to avoid pain? No. Because where then do you draw the line? A terminal diagnosis should be medically proven. How can we quantify how much someone is physically hurting other than what they tell us?

But it's wasn't just to "manage" her pain. She had already tried to commit suicide, and rendered herself paralysed and incontinent in the process. If someone in that utterly dreadful position decides that they want to throw in the towel, who are we to argue?

I think we are to argue, yes, and we absolutely should discourage someone with a history of trauma mental illness to re-consider ending their life.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think euthanasia should be used on someone who is suicidal, I don't think it should be used to alleviate someone's pain. I also think that 25 is way too young... we're not talking about someone who has spent decades in pain or contemplating suicide. This young woman's life had just started. Like many pp have said, how they felt in their 20's is nothing like how they feel in their older age.

The more I think about it the more concerned I am that someone with a diagnosis of bi polar (which may well have actually have been ND), with layers of trauma, in huge unmanaged pain was able to go through this process

No, we're talking about someone who would otherwise have endured decades of pain, mental anguish and severe disability. Why anyone would choose to impose that upon someone is beyond me. Having said that, I would also not describe someone born a quarter of a century ago as just getting started in life.

No there isn't but I'm entitled to my opinion which you're trying to shut down.

We dont know that she would have endured decades of mental anguish and pain.

She did have severe disability, yes

No one would want anyone to suffer, but its assumed at her age and her stage of the process of injury that there was still progress to be made

Drs apparently sanctioned the first application she made so perhaps they determined she couldnt make progress, I dont know what the threshold is for Spain.

I notice the way you phrase her age as 'quarter of a century' to make it sound a much longer period than 25 years, you're out of step with most of this forum who would treat her very much younger than her years, particularly in light of her care history, her MH and her trauma. Most of mumsnet would consider that she was functioning at a much younger age due to those factors.

Yes, people do kill themselves every day. But their attempts often fail, as in this case, and the consequences are horrific and often lifelong. Many people are left vegetables. And if they succeed in suicide, most methods available to a normal person in a non-medical setting are horrifically violent and painful, and often drawn-out. And regular suicide has to be the loneliest thing in the world. And then there's the lifelong trauma for anyone unfortunate enough to discover the body, the people who have to clean up the aftermath, and the trauma for any friends and family who have to be told about the suicide.

Euthanasia can remove so much of the needless suffering and trauma from suicide for so many people - not just the person dying. Isn't suicide bad enough? Why do some people want to make it as horrific as possible for everyone?

To put it graphically, you could bleed out over lonely hours of torture and then not be discovered for weeks. Or, you could die peacefully and painlessly, warm in a bed, with someone holding your hand, and all your affairs set in order. Why wouldn't anyone want the latter for someone suffering that much? That's a final "gift" we can give someone who has lost so much.

So is there an argument to make that each person that MH services come into contact with because they are suicidal or have made an attempt, there should be new laws made that they can be euthanised?

And if not, why not?

Also, people are talking about trauma and mental support services. But sometimes it's not that simple. It may be controversial, but some people have a fundamentally "depressive" personality, with no obvious external causes, that is effectively unchangeable. I would put Kurt Cobain forward as a good example. As far as I know, Kurt had a relatively stable upbringing and happy childhood, without any known abuse or trauma. His parents did divorce, but that is very common and most people cope with it. However, Kurt became deeply and permanently depressed thereafter. It seems it was neurochemical and genetic with him (several uncles killed themselves by the same method he chose). He basically hated life and wanted to die from puberty (he said so enough in his lyrics!). I don't think anyone could have "saved" or "cured" Kurt. He tried unsuccessfully to kill himself through overdosing about a month before his final attempt, and was probably left with brain damage. He was determined. It probably would have been better for everyone if Kurt had been offered euthanasia rather than blowing his brains out with a shotgun.

We don’t know that though do we? How do we know for certain what her future held? What if by therapy, careful pain management and advances in medicine, her quality of life improved?
and sorry… 25 is young! Whatever spin you try and put on it.

And, what if it didn't, or even worsened? As I said earlier, who can blame her for not wanting to take that gamble?