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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Callous' teenager jailed for killing mother with a hammer because of 'hatred of women'

40 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/03/2026 18:53

I dont even want to quote the attack or name him.

But just to say RIP Angela Shellis Flowers

You desreved much better than this, and a life you could lead without fear.

Sad Angry

The publishers have added: Warning this article contains details some readers might find distressing.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2026-03-25/teenager-jailed-for-killing-mother-with-a-hammer-because-of-hatred-of-women

OP posts:
Lougle · 26/03/2026 07:03

Ritaskitchen · 25/03/2026 20:51

I felt there was a lot missing from the reporting. Where was the father? Why was nothing doing when the Mum flagged serious concerns about her sons mental health ? A family let down totally by various services yet again. And a loving mother who did her best but in the end her son made a terrible and evil decision. It’s heartbreaking.
Also the dangers of the online world - especially Discord, and the lack of any real mental health support in the Uk currently. Sadly I think there will be more cases like this. Also what did this murderer think was going to happen? All signs clearly pointed to him and other than a hatred (without a clear basis as she seems to have really tried to help him) of his mother there seems to be no actual motive. A horrible and senseless crime.

https://mol.im/a/15679829

I know people don't like the Daily Mail, but it has a more detailed article. The mum and Dad split up and Angela moved from Bedfordshire to Wales.

He had spent time in hospital and homelessness accommodation, and had be referred to the safeguarding board.

I suppose they just didn't see the immediacy of the danger.

JaneFondue · 26/03/2026 07:45

CrocsNotDocs · 26/03/2026 02:03

Yes. Mums regularly post on here about being abused by their late teen, early 20s son. They say they want to kick their sons out. The terrifying thing is many posters reply with versions of “I could never see my child on the streets.”. “Why is he like that? You raised him”. “Where is he meant to go?” “You’ll make him feel abandoned and worse”. Nothing these mothers can do to help their sons is ever enough for these posters. Mothers are meant to absorb abuse apparently and boundaries are cruel.

There is a level of victim blaming towards mothers with violent sons that would never be tolerated if the male was a partner.

Agree completely. Fed up of reading " I would never make my son homeless"and " you raised him".

lcakethereforeIam · 26/03/2026 10:33

The Telegraph have a new article

https://archive.ph/He9Jr

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/25/teenager-killed-mother-hammer-hated-women-north-wales/

Apparently AI could be persuaded to give advice on the best murder weapon, you just need to ask the right way. The very recent case in the States regarding social media might turn out to be important in cases like this.

Although Discord kicked him out, just let him back in, it doesn't seem he was reported for his plan to commit murder. Perhaps he was and it wasn't reported. I believe even anonymous accounts can, in some circumstances, be traced.

I'm surprised there's so little mention of his father. He's almost completely omitted. Was he even at the trial?

Is there likely to be an inquest?

That poor, poor woman. What her child put her through in the final few hours of her life and in the weeks, months leading up to it.

PermanentTemporary · 26/03/2026 10:43

I think it’s too easy to make links from pieces of information in a short news report that aren’t necessarily linked.

This was an 18 year old male with deteriorating mental health. A classic age for a first psychotic episode, though I don’t know if that’s what this was. Yes, the murder occurred after a divorce and after they moved but it is perfectly possible that none of these events were linked. Lots of parents divorce and lots of teenagers move house and lots of people use a Discord server or a mobile phone or mental health problems or a diagnosis of ASD. Very few murder anyone. Though of course there is a distressing group of men who murder their mothers, whether the father is there or not.

RIP Angela.

MoistVonL · 26/03/2026 10:53

He recorded the whole thing, all 4 and a half hours of it??? Jesus Christ. Poor Angela.

DreamingBe · 26/03/2026 14:08

Awful story. This woman and her son clearly both needed professional intervention.

I would suspect that this family have been failed consistently for an extended period of time.

I spoke to a mother last year at a meetup for SEND children whose 12 year old was threatening other family members with a knife on a daily basis and also suffered from suicidal ideation, and then moved onto broken bottles and anything else he could improvise as a weapon. The police and social services didn't want to know other than blaming her parenting, the poor woman was terrified for herself and her children and clearly loved her child very much despite his issues. She was very lonely as her extended family and friends had all cut contact as her child was so dangerous and the father had given up and left. I often think of her and hope she and her son are safe and managed to get help.

I know of a lot of other mothers who are regularly attacked by their children with autism or mental health conditions and offered no real support for their behaviour, only parenting classes and blame, to the extent where some are scared to ask for help despite sustaining injuries from their children. Some off roll their children from school because school offer so little SEND support that their children are pushed to breaking point and then experience horrendous meltdowns at home (which are then blamed on poor parenting), putting the child and their family at risk of violence.

Parents with autistic children are disproportionately likely to get divorced, and generally it seems the father will bugger off and the mother gets the brunt of the meltdowns, often exacerbated by contact time with fathers who can't be bothered to learn about sensory needs or how to parent their child appropriately. It's the same complaints at every group I've been to by the majority of the women there.

I have no idea how any child with SEND and dangerous meltdowns or habits are supposed to grow up learning how to self regulate appropriately and not become prone to explosive rage or dangerous behaviour, with parents being given zero specialist guidance and support for complex needs that cannot be sorted out using normal parenting methods. It's not right that any mother should experience blame and a total lack of support when they have a child who is violent and old enough to cause injury, and yet it seems to be totally endemic to leave mothers with no practical support, even when schools and councils have it in a child's EHCP that the same child needs multiple adults to support at school for safety during times of crisis.

To add to the problem, our local NHS child mental health service will not offer any services for unrelated mental health conditions such as depression or anger issues to children diagnosed with autism. They just get immediately removed from the waiting list if the service finds out they've had a diagnosis of a neurodivergence.

That the victim messaged a social worker about the weapons and clearly nothing was done is absolutely typical of how mothers of children and young adults with dangerous behaviour are routinely treated in my local area, a long way from the poor victim. There will be more victims. There will be women and children suffering who are never recorded as victims as they never report the injuries they sustain and the fear and stress they are living in due to the fear of blame and their children being removed. There will be other victims who never make the papers. Things need to change.

Tonissister · 26/03/2026 14:17

I just read about this at lunchtime. He said he 'didn't trust' women.

What could be less trustworthy than telling you rmum you are taking her to get medical help then killing her?

Tonissister · 26/03/2026 14:30

lcakethereforeIam · 26/03/2026 10:33

The Telegraph have a new article

https://archive.ph/He9Jr

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/25/teenager-killed-mother-hammer-hated-women-north-wales/

Apparently AI could be persuaded to give advice on the best murder weapon, you just need to ask the right way. The very recent case in the States regarding social media might turn out to be important in cases like this.

Although Discord kicked him out, just let him back in, it doesn't seem he was reported for his plan to commit murder. Perhaps he was and it wasn't reported. I believe even anonymous accounts can, in some circumstances, be traced.

I'm surprised there's so little mention of his father. He's almost completely omitted. Was he even at the trial?

Is there likely to be an inquest?

That poor, poor woman. What her child put her through in the final few hours of her life and in the weeks, months leading up to it.

SM and AI companies have so much responsibility for this. How can he have been banned from a site, only to create 16 new usernames. Have they no checks in place to work out if banned users are returning on the same ISPs or in the same location?
As for accessing murderous info by claiming it's for fiction - the AI provider is an accessory - enabling and encouraging the method of murder by failing to build adequate safety breaks and censorship into the material they broadcast.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/03/2026 14:43

DreamingBe · 26/03/2026 14:08

Awful story. This woman and her son clearly both needed professional intervention.

I would suspect that this family have been failed consistently for an extended period of time.

I spoke to a mother last year at a meetup for SEND children whose 12 year old was threatening other family members with a knife on a daily basis and also suffered from suicidal ideation, and then moved onto broken bottles and anything else he could improvise as a weapon. The police and social services didn't want to know other than blaming her parenting, the poor woman was terrified for herself and her children and clearly loved her child very much despite his issues. She was very lonely as her extended family and friends had all cut contact as her child was so dangerous and the father had given up and left. I often think of her and hope she and her son are safe and managed to get help.

I know of a lot of other mothers who are regularly attacked by their children with autism or mental health conditions and offered no real support for their behaviour, only parenting classes and blame, to the extent where some are scared to ask for help despite sustaining injuries from their children. Some off roll their children from school because school offer so little SEND support that their children are pushed to breaking point and then experience horrendous meltdowns at home (which are then blamed on poor parenting), putting the child and their family at risk of violence.

Parents with autistic children are disproportionately likely to get divorced, and generally it seems the father will bugger off and the mother gets the brunt of the meltdowns, often exacerbated by contact time with fathers who can't be bothered to learn about sensory needs or how to parent their child appropriately. It's the same complaints at every group I've been to by the majority of the women there.

I have no idea how any child with SEND and dangerous meltdowns or habits are supposed to grow up learning how to self regulate appropriately and not become prone to explosive rage or dangerous behaviour, with parents being given zero specialist guidance and support for complex needs that cannot be sorted out using normal parenting methods. It's not right that any mother should experience blame and a total lack of support when they have a child who is violent and old enough to cause injury, and yet it seems to be totally endemic to leave mothers with no practical support, even when schools and councils have it in a child's EHCP that the same child needs multiple adults to support at school for safety during times of crisis.

To add to the problem, our local NHS child mental health service will not offer any services for unrelated mental health conditions such as depression or anger issues to children diagnosed with autism. They just get immediately removed from the waiting list if the service finds out they've had a diagnosis of a neurodivergence.

That the victim messaged a social worker about the weapons and clearly nothing was done is absolutely typical of how mothers of children and young adults with dangerous behaviour are routinely treated in my local area, a long way from the poor victim. There will be more victims. There will be women and children suffering who are never recorded as victims as they never report the injuries they sustain and the fear and stress they are living in due to the fear of blame and their children being removed. There will be other victims who never make the papers. Things need to change.

How right you are and what an important post @DreamingBe .

I also agree with what you say here:
the mother gets the brunt of the meltdowns, often exacerbated by contact time with fathers who can't be bothered to learn about sensory needs or how to parent their child appropriately.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/03/2026 14:45

MoistVonL · 26/03/2026 10:53

He recorded the whole thing, all 4 and a half hours of it??? Jesus Christ. Poor Angela.

It doesn’t bear thinking about how the process of murdering her took 4 1/2 hours.

JaneFondue · 26/03/2026 14:46

There's a thread right now in active about an elderly couple being abused by their son. Some of the responses are nuts.

Clytemnestra21 · 26/03/2026 14:46

RIP Angela

SpinandSing · 26/03/2026 14:51

DreamingBe · 26/03/2026 14:08

Awful story. This woman and her son clearly both needed professional intervention.

I would suspect that this family have been failed consistently for an extended period of time.

I spoke to a mother last year at a meetup for SEND children whose 12 year old was threatening other family members with a knife on a daily basis and also suffered from suicidal ideation, and then moved onto broken bottles and anything else he could improvise as a weapon. The police and social services didn't want to know other than blaming her parenting, the poor woman was terrified for herself and her children and clearly loved her child very much despite his issues. She was very lonely as her extended family and friends had all cut contact as her child was so dangerous and the father had given up and left. I often think of her and hope she and her son are safe and managed to get help.

I know of a lot of other mothers who are regularly attacked by their children with autism or mental health conditions and offered no real support for their behaviour, only parenting classes and blame, to the extent where some are scared to ask for help despite sustaining injuries from their children. Some off roll their children from school because school offer so little SEND support that their children are pushed to breaking point and then experience horrendous meltdowns at home (which are then blamed on poor parenting), putting the child and their family at risk of violence.

Parents with autistic children are disproportionately likely to get divorced, and generally it seems the father will bugger off and the mother gets the brunt of the meltdowns, often exacerbated by contact time with fathers who can't be bothered to learn about sensory needs or how to parent their child appropriately. It's the same complaints at every group I've been to by the majority of the women there.

I have no idea how any child with SEND and dangerous meltdowns or habits are supposed to grow up learning how to self regulate appropriately and not become prone to explosive rage or dangerous behaviour, with parents being given zero specialist guidance and support for complex needs that cannot be sorted out using normal parenting methods. It's not right that any mother should experience blame and a total lack of support when they have a child who is violent and old enough to cause injury, and yet it seems to be totally endemic to leave mothers with no practical support, even when schools and councils have it in a child's EHCP that the same child needs multiple adults to support at school for safety during times of crisis.

To add to the problem, our local NHS child mental health service will not offer any services for unrelated mental health conditions such as depression or anger issues to children diagnosed with autism. They just get immediately removed from the waiting list if the service finds out they've had a diagnosis of a neurodivergence.

That the victim messaged a social worker about the weapons and clearly nothing was done is absolutely typical of how mothers of children and young adults with dangerous behaviour are routinely treated in my local area, a long way from the poor victim. There will be more victims. There will be women and children suffering who are never recorded as victims as they never report the injuries they sustain and the fear and stress they are living in due to the fear of blame and their children being removed. There will be other victims who never make the papers. Things need to change.

Absolutely spot on. How many times do these young men have an ASD diagnosis? And we hear of the families struggling to get any support or know what to do? The Southport killer is a recent example and delve into any article with teenage, male killers and there is usually an ASD diagnosis.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/03/2026 15:18

SpinandSing · 26/03/2026 14:51

Absolutely spot on. How many times do these young men have an ASD diagnosis? And we hear of the families struggling to get any support or know what to do? The Southport killer is a recent example and delve into any article with teenage, male killers and there is usually an ASD diagnosis.

I looked it up and the answer seemed to be very infrequently - that it is the other way round, those with asd are more likely to be victims.

We seem to keep hearing of it and know asd is under diagnosed, though and know asd children's violent behaviour at home can be under/reported. The teenaged murderers of Brianna Ghey had asd for example, but the girl murderer seemed not to have been diagnosed till her likely asd seemed clear at the time of their trial.

This paper says that though people with asd are notmore likely per se to be violent, and indeed may be more likely to be a victim, there
may be a subset:

There is nevertheless a small subgroup of individuals with ASD who exhibit violent offending behaviours and our previous work has suggested that other factors, such as adverse childhood experiences, might be important in this subgroup (Allely, Minnis, Thompson, Wilson, & Gillberg, 2014 ). Fitzgerald ( 2015 ) highlights that school shootings and mass killings are not uncommonly carried out by individuals with neurodevelopmental disorders, with frequent evidence of warning indicators.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27185105/

It examines mass shootings and says 8% were carried out by neurodivergent people and that 8% is a much higher prevalence (8 X as much) as there are asd individuals in the normal population.

Violence is Rare in Autism: When It Does Occur, Is It Sometimes Extreme? - PubMed

A small body of literature has suggested that, rather than being more likely to engage in offending or violent behavior, individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) may actually have an increased risk of being the victim rather than the perpetrator...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27185105/

IwantToRetire · 26/03/2026 19:37

PermanentTemporary · 26/03/2026 10:43

I think it’s too easy to make links from pieces of information in a short news report that aren’t necessarily linked.

This was an 18 year old male with deteriorating mental health. A classic age for a first psychotic episode, though I don’t know if that’s what this was. Yes, the murder occurred after a divorce and after they moved but it is perfectly possible that none of these events were linked. Lots of parents divorce and lots of teenagers move house and lots of people use a Discord server or a mobile phone or mental health problems or a diagnosis of ASD. Very few murder anyone. Though of course there is a distressing group of men who murder their mothers, whether the father is there or not.

RIP Angela.

If your response is a reply to the one I made, I made it for exactly the reason you said, because someone had come to a conclusion about what had really happened.

All any of us are saying is that the reporting doesn't clarify to totallity of the circumstances.

Although part of my reply was influenced from know at least 2 women whose lifes were made absuolute misery by their sons because after splitting from the father it was "decided" ie no other option was put forward that the mother should have care of the son.

And rightly or wrongly teenagers with or without social media can all too easily blame the mother because she is the adult who each day is saying sorry we cant affor to do X or Y. Or sorry you cant be with you friends because we are now living so far away from them.

And the intimidation from a nearly fully grown son having a temper tantrum.

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