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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bid in Lords to overturn move to decriminalise abortion for women

906 replies

IwantToRetire · 18/03/2026 21:30

A landmark move to decriminalise women terminating their own pregnancies could be overturned as legislation is considered in the House of Lords.

In June, MPs in the Commons voted in favour of decriminalisation, with one saying it would remove the threat of “investigation, arrest, prosecution or imprisonment” of any woman who acts in relation to her own pregnancy. ...

But, with the Bill making its way through the Lords, an amendment has been tabled to remove the relevant clause. ...

https://nation.cymru/news/bid-in-lords-to-overturn-move-to-decriminalise-abortion-for-women/

Bid in Lords to overturn move to decriminalise abortion for women

A landmark move to decriminalise women terminating their own pregnancies could be overturned as legislation is considered in the House of Lords. In June, MPs in the Commons voted in favour of decriminalisation, with one saying it would remove the threa...

https://nation.cymru/news/bid-in-lords-to-overturn-move-to-decriminalise-abortion-for-women/

OP posts:
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Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:09

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:07

It pretty awful to try to use a woman’s pregnancy losses against her. Do you feel better for saying that?

I'm not saying it in a horrible way...surely losing several pregnancies must have been upsetting? Usually a desired for pregnancy that results in a miscarriage causes some grief - for the loss of life and potential etc.

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:11

NotAtMyAge · 19/03/2026 16:02

A baby is wholly dependent on its mother or other adult for the maintenance of its life for a considerable time after birth . One of the prices humans paid for developing a bipedal gait and a large brain is total helplessness at birth.

I agree.....

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:11

Mmmchocolatebuttons · 19/03/2026 16:07

I didn't ask about your view though. I already know what that is.

Do you really genuinely believe that, if you went out and did what I asked, the majority would say that their baby wasn't alive?

Edited

Absolutely some would, as demonstrated on this thread, but some wouldn’t. I’m not sure of your point, we’ve already established that pregnant women don’t all feel the same way

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:13

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:11

Absolutely some would, as demonstrated on this thread, but some wouldn’t. I’m not sure of your point, we’ve already established that pregnant women don’t all feel the same way

The feelings of the woman have no bearing on the fact that the foetus and then the pre-term baby is alive, though.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:14

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:09

I'm not saying it in a horrible way...surely losing several pregnancies must have been upsetting? Usually a desired for pregnancy that results in a miscarriage causes some grief - for the loss of life and potential etc.

Edited

You absolutely were trying to use my pregnancy losses against against me. It’s a really crappy thing to say.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:16

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:13

The feelings of the woman have no bearing on the fact that the foetus and then the pre-term baby is alive, though.

Edited

I could equally make the same argument that just because a pregnant woman feels that her foetus is alive, it doesn’t mean it is.

Mmmchocolatebuttons · 19/03/2026 16:16

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:11

Absolutely some would, as demonstrated on this thread, but some wouldn’t. I’m not sure of your point, we’ve already established that pregnant women don’t all feel the same way

I wish we had the statistics on this, because women with your view must be vanishingly rare.

And it wouldn't change the fact that they're just factually wrong.

Holidaybirthdaydrama · 19/03/2026 16:16

EvangelineTheNightStar · 18/03/2026 22:19

So it’s not stopping women having abortions? It’s saying a pregnant woman should have an in-person consultation before lawfully being prescribed medicine for the termination of a pregnancy at home?
Is this driven by the woman who said she thought she wasn’t that pregnant but was beyond 24 weeks?

I think it’s sensible that an in person assessment is done before the pills are prescribed

theilltemperedamateur · 19/03/2026 16:17

Holidaybirthdaydrama · 19/03/2026 16:16

I think it’s sensible that an in person assessment is done before the pills are prescribed

👍👍👍👍👍

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:18

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:16

I could equally make the same argument that just because a pregnant woman feels that her foetus is alive, it doesn’t mean it is.

Except it is - unless she loses it through miscarriage or a fetal abnormaity in which case it dies.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:18

Mmmchocolatebuttons · 19/03/2026 16:16

I wish we had the statistics on this, because women with your view must be vanishingly rare.

And it wouldn't change the fact that they're just factually wrong.

They’re not. Many women stood up in the commons arguing the same points as me. This change wouldn’t have passed through parliament if lots of people didn’t agree.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:19

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:18

Except it is - unless she loses it through miscarriage or a fetal abnormaity in which case it dies.

Edited

We could go back and forth with this all day. I respect your views, I just don’t agree. At this point we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Kouklamo · 19/03/2026 16:19

I’m sorry for your losses @Batties I too have also had losses and it a really tough road to walk.

I appreciate you have stated feel differently about your losses but I certainly felt like the babies I lost were alive despite never being officially born and I grieved their loss.

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:20

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:19

We could go back and forth with this all day. I respect your views, I just don’t agree. At this point we’ll have to agree to disagree.

It is not "a view". It is a fact. A growing fetus and a pre-term baby are both alive.

Honestly, this is a bit weird...not sure what is going on here.

Mmmchocolatebuttons · 19/03/2026 16:21

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:18

They’re not. Many women stood up in the commons arguing the same points as me. This change wouldn’t have passed through parliament if lots of people didn’t agree.

I think I'll make an AIBU poll because I really am curious as to how many people have the same belief.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:22

Kouklamo · 19/03/2026 16:19

I’m sorry for your losses @Batties I too have also had losses and it a really tough road to walk.

I appreciate you have stated feel differently about your losses but I certainly felt like the babies I lost were alive despite never being officially born and I grieved their loss.

I really do respect your views, and I’m sorry that you went for your losses. It’s not easy.

GarlicFound · 19/03/2026 16:25

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 15:47

Is that maybe why you are finding it hard to acknowledge the loss of life involved?

Replying on my own behalf, I'm not the PP you quoted.

I've had at least 5 miscarriages and one borderline stillbirth (21 weeks). I held the final foetus in my hands - she emerged intact, in a public place. I was, naturally, devastated.

I support abortion to term. I am uncomfortable about it emotionally, but logic and principles dictate that I must. What a woman's body does must be in the woman's control - not the State, any church, her partner or her parents. As long as a foetus is being grown by a woman's body, in her body, she must have dominion over it.

It's bizarre to ask women who've suffered failed pregnancies it they find it hard to acknowledge the loss of life. We have acknowledged it, repeatedly. We have acknowledged that our bodies were unable to create new human beings. I was growing new life and then it stopped.

Do you think my unborn children chose suicide? If you saw them as individual lives, you would have to. That's absurd, of course. My body's attempts to create them failed before completion. This happens all the time. Chemical abortion makes the woman's body inhospitable to foetal development, as mine evidently was by nature. There is no real difference between a miscarriage/stillbirth and an abortion; the differences are entirely emotional and moral.

On a personal note, I find the moral-emotional arguments against abortion distasteful. At least a quarter of pregnancies miscarry, it's more likely to be half. These are not deaths equivalent to the deaths of living children; they're sadly failed biological processes. They can be heartbreaking, for sure. But it's a different category of event.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:26

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/03/2026 16:20

It is not "a view". It is a fact. A growing fetus and a pre-term baby are both alive.

Honestly, this is a bit weird...not sure what is going on here.

Is it as weird as trying to weaponise a woman’s pregnancy losses against her?

I tried to discuss this in good faith, but you went really low. You claim to care about the way a woman feels when she is pregnant or suffers a loss of pregnancy, and yet it doesn’t appear that you think I should be afforded the same kindness.

Babyboomtastic · 19/03/2026 16:29

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:16

I could equally make the same argument that just because a pregnant woman feels that her foetus is alive, it doesn’t mean it is.

I'm still baffled by this, and I'm not the only one. I'd be grateful if you could clarify which to your knowledge of the following would be alive?

A metal spoon
A dandelion
A glass window
A dog running round barking
A plastic box
The smallpox virus
A mushroom
Bacteria
Sharks before they are born (they hatch inside mum and then the strongest eat their siblings in utero before being born)
A 8 month fetus who has spent the day kicking mum, hiccuping, and responds to loud sounds.

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:34

Babyboomtastic · 19/03/2026 16:29

I'm still baffled by this, and I'm not the only one. I'd be grateful if you could clarify which to your knowledge of the following would be alive?

A metal spoon
A dandelion
A glass window
A dog running round barking
A plastic box
The smallpox virus
A mushroom
Bacteria
Sharks before they are born (they hatch inside mum and then the strongest eat their siblings in utero before being born)
A 8 month fetus who has spent the day kicking mum, hiccuping, and responds to loud sounds.

If this is meant to make a point about a foetus, then it would be far more productive to just make that point directly rather than dressing it up as a slightly chaotic inventory exercise

elgreco · 19/03/2026 16:34

For those who don't believe human foetuses are alive, i presume you are against maternity leave for those who have stillbirths (24 weeks gestation)?

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:36

elgreco · 19/03/2026 16:34

For those who don't believe human foetuses are alive, i presume you are against maternity leave for those who have stillbirths (24 weeks gestation)?

Why would I be against it? If a woman has suffered the loss of a pregnancy then of course she should have leave.

Bobblebottle · 19/03/2026 16:38

Some posters are talking about a foetus being not alive in regard to legal personhood (legally abortion is not 'killing'/homicide) while others are talking about biology (a foetus is definitely a living organism).

Babyboomtastic · 19/03/2026 16:46

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:34

If this is meant to make a point about a foetus, then it would be far more productive to just make that point directly rather than dressing it up as a slightly chaotic inventory exercise

I did, but you responded claiming that a fetus isn't alive, which goes against all accepted science. Then seemed to think I was joking when I said that a virus is alive. So clearly your understanding of alive vs not alive is unique to you (ie not right), so I'm fascinated what you think about the others I mention

Batties · 19/03/2026 16:50

Babyboomtastic · 19/03/2026 16:46

I did, but you responded claiming that a fetus isn't alive, which goes against all accepted science. Then seemed to think I was joking when I said that a virus is alive. So clearly your understanding of alive vs not alive is unique to you (ie not right), so I'm fascinated what you think about the others I mention

So it was an attempt to insult my intelligence?

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